Witness: Gen Shibiri, Witness G. Evidence leaders: Adv Seegels-Ncube, Adv Chaskalson SC.
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Lt-Gen Shibiri indicated that initially he referred to the 'other side' as the faction of General Sibiya and expressed difficulty identifying members of this faction.
“I was referring to General Sibiya and his faction”
Lt-Gen Shibiri admitted that he was pressured to mention names but chose not to do so due to lack of concrete evidence against those allegedly on General Sibiya's side, including himself.
“I was pressed to say I must mention names ... I did not have concrete evidence against any of those people who might be perceived to be on his side. I even included myself, that sometimes I was considered to be on his side.”
The Chairperson challenged Lt-Gen Shibiri's change of reference from 'the other faction' to 'the family' as inconsistent and questioned the basis for this change during the Commission's engagement.
“I have difficulty understanding how that can suddenly change to the family... that cannot change upon being engaged by the Commission.”
Lt-Gen Shibiri stated that the reason for reporting to 'the family' was that they were the ones who called General Sibiya complaining about not knowing the detention status of Mr. Molefe.
“They are the ones who phoned him... they wanted to know where, they were complaining about not knowing where he is detained.”
Lt-Gen Shibiri acknowledged that he was referring to General Sibiya and expressed difficulty identifying specific members in General Sibiya's faction within SAPS.
“I agree... I was referring to General Sibiya... having difficulty to identify... who is in his faction from the police side.”
Lt-Gen Shibiri initially referred to 'family and friends' rather than 'perpetrators' regarding those involved in the issue around Mr. Molefe's detention.
“I referred to family and friends ... I thought I said family and friends.”
Lt-Gen Shibiri explained that he initially had one version referring to General Sibiya's faction, but upon pressure, changed his statement to say the complaints came from 'family and friends'.
“I had one version when I said side, meaning the General Sibiya and the faction ... But when I was pressed, I said because the persons who complained was the family and I said family and friends.”
Lt-Gen Shibiri clarified that the perpetrators are four persons who have been arrested and charged, and he has no information tying them to General Sibiya.
“It is four persons who are being charged, and I do not have information that they are related or have ties with General Sibiya.”
The Chairperson read from the previous day's transcript showing Lt-Gen Shibiri had referred to 'perpetrators, family and friends' and challenged him on the identity of the perpetrators mentioned.
“The transcript of yesterday... it does say it is the perpetrators, family and friends.”
Lt-Gen Shibiri admitted including 'perpetrators' in his earlier statement was a mistake and confirmed he meant 'family and friends' only.
“I added even the perpetrator because I do not know him to be having the ties. So that is my mistake.”
Adv Segeels-Ncube pointed out it was not only when pressured for names that Lt-Gen Shibiri changed his account, but also due to arguments that it was implausible for the other faction to be that of General Sibiya's side.
“It was not just when you were pressed for names that you changed your version.”
LT-Genshibiri indicated the faction he referred to was General Sibiya's side, not Mr Molefe's family or the National Commissioner's side.
“it is not the family, it is not Mr Molefe's family ... it is General Sibiya's side”
LT-Genshibiri was pressured not to mention names related to a faction and chose not to reveal any names to avoid speculation without evidence.
“that is why I am saying it was when I was pressed ... I said I choose not to mention the names”
LT-Genshibiri was on leave from 27 November 2024 and was not working on 6 December 2024 during the police takedown operation.
“I understood you to say that you were on leave even on the day of the operations ... from the 27th of November”
LT-Genshibiri confirmed a call he made to Witness A on 7 December 2024 was a follow-up from General Sibiya's request about feedback on detainee Lucky Molefe.
“the 16 December call that you made to Witness A was to follow up upon General Sibiya's request from you about feedback on the detention status of Mr Molefe... Correct?”
Witness A states on 6 December 2024 a manhunt for Lucky Molefe began and that on 7 December Colonel Mokoena called to ask why Molefe's arrest had not been reported to him, despite instructions not to report details of the murder case to anyone else.
“I left Pretoria Central Police Station to assist the team who were on an active manhunt to find Lucky Molefe... On 7 December 2024... I received a call from Colonel Mokoena who asked why I had not reported the arrest of Molefe ... because Brigadier Gopane instructed shortly after Tau, Kekana and Mabusela's first appearance on 19 April 2024 not to report to anyone other than her regarding the murder case.”
Witness A says reports about developments in the murder case (since April 2024) including Tau's bail and re-arrest, were not made to Colonel Mokoena and Mokoena only changed stance after receiving a call from General Sibiya enquiring about Lucky Molefe's detention and family notification.
“Since April 2024, we had not reported to Colonel Mokoena regarding the murder case... When I reminded Colonel Mokoena... he then changed his stance and said he was only enquiring because he had received a call from General Sibiya who wanted to know why Molefe was not being detained at the police station close to his residence and why Molefe's family had not been informed”
Witness A does not recall any call with LT-Genshibiri on 7 December but only has record of a call on 6 December about the arrest of Lucky Molefe.
“Witness A is adamant that he does not recall you calling him on the 7th of December. He only has a record of the call of the 6th of December”
LT-Genshibiri stated when Molefe was taken from his residence, he informed Molefe's family members present and his attorney that Molefe would be taken to Pretoria Central Police Station.
“I informed his family members who were present that we would be taking him to Pretoria Central Police Station and I also informed his attorney”
LT-Genshibiri called on 16 December to enquire about the charges Lucky Molefe was arrested for, after receiving an invitation and before returning to work on 17 December.
“I phoned on the 16th ... I knew on the 17th I am going back to work and I forgot to ask what he was arrested for. That was the reason why I was phoning on the 16th, not to enquire about his arrest, to enquire about the charges which he was arrested for.”
LT-Genshibiri said Colonel Mokoena told him they were busy but would come back soon when he enquired about Lucky Molefe's detention as the family had complained to the DNC.
“Colonel Mokoena ... said he will come back to me sooner, they are busy ... I received a call that the family complained to the DNC that they do not know where he is detained”
LT-Genshibiri said he was looking for itemized billing for his private state phone to verify calls, but Vodacom could not assist in November 2025. He believes he phoned Brigadier Nama on 7 December about the unit that made the arrest.
“I was also looking on my itemized billing for the state phone ... I phoned first Brigadier Nama on the 7th ... because I did not know which unit from the province have made such an arrest when I was asked to establish on the 7th.”
An unnamed speaker stated that by the stage of LT-Genshibiri's follow-up enquiries, Lucky Molefe had already had his first court appearance on 9 December.
“But General, by that stage, he had already had his first appearance ... he appeared on the 9th of December”
Lieutenant General Shibiri was on leave and sick on the 6th and 7th and thus did not know the reason for an arrest, but took it upon himself to make enquiries and report back to General Sibiyila as he was trusted to do so.
“I was not reluctant on the 16th. On the 6th I was supposed to be going there if I was feeling well... I phoned to find out what was he arrested for... He trusted, he always phones me and it shows he trusted me to do the work and always he tasked me.”
An unnamed speaker questioned why LT-Genshibiri would need to enquire about Lucky Molefe's arrest after his court appearance if following up on General Sibiya's request, and why there was reluctance to report back to General Sibiya about this.
“Why would you need to enquire about that? He appeared on the 9th of December... why the reluctance to report back to the other side being General Sibiya ... Why the reluctance?”
Even though Lieutenant General Shibiri was on sick leave, General Sibiyila directly phoned him and expected a full report on the arrest matter from him, instead of tasking the acting officer or the Deputy Police Commissioner Khumalo.
“The General knew I was on sick leave, and he chose to phone me, not informing the one who is acting to enquire about these things on the 7th... when he knows it is not your docket.”
Advocate Baloyi questions why Lieutenant General Shibiri did not instruct the acting officer or ask General Khumalo to provide reports during his sick leave, thus creating a vacuum in handling the January arrest matter.
“That is the last thing that happened... You do not, and then you on the 17th or 16th start making these enquiries without yourself speaking to Khumalo to check did you give Sibiy a response. So you created this vacuum.”
Lieutenant General Shibiri admits to making enquiries and reporting back directly to General Sibiyila even while on sick leave, despite the acting officer being responsible for such matters during his absence.
“I take it upon myself that always I report back if I am sent... I make sure that I go and report back... I expect the person to report back to me and then I report back to the senior person who has tasked me.”
Lt-Gen Shibiri had a conversation on the 7th where the family and attorney knew about an arrest, but on the 16th, he mentioned wanting information for the other side, implying it was not for the family.
“You are satisfied that the family knows because the attorney knows ... So on the 16th when you say he wants it for the other side, it cannot be the family”
Lt-Gen Shibiri explained that the discussion about wanting information for the other side was a proposition, not a direct call where the person asked for such information.
“I do not understand it as I said that was the conversation which I came with that proposition ... it was a proposition”
Lt-Gen Shibiri was bothered by the fact that people who do their work get threatened when doing it, not by the fact that people wanted to know about arrests.
“In our discussion what was bothering me ... is this thing that we do in our work and people threaten us when we do our work”
Lt-Gen Shibiri indicated that people do things knowing they will be arrested but do not want to be arrested.
“people do things but they know they will be arrested but they do not want to be arrested”
Lt-Gen Shibiri learned the arrested person was partners with the late Mswazi and others in business.
“I have learned or I have information that this person was partners with the late Mswazi and other people. They were business partners and so forth”
Col. Mokoena and Brigadier Gopane promptly explained to the family and lawyer the whereabouts of the arrested person and said there was nothing wrong.
“Colonel Mokoena and Brigadier Gopane were promptly explained that the family was explained where the person was and the lawyer was explained where the person was and there was nothing wrong”
Lt-Gen Shibiri said he wanted a full report on the reasons and charges for an arrest so he could explain fully if asked.
“I wanted to know why, the charges against the person so that when we meet I can be able to give a full report”
Lt-Gen Shibiri said that the phone call was to establish the reason for the arrest and to gather information to assist in investigation, not specifically to provide information to the National Commissioner.
“the reason for the phone was to establish the reason for the arrest but we talked a lot of things and also shared more information which can assist in the investigation ... It is not to say he phoned and said he wants information that day”
Lt-Gen Shibiri was not bothered by the family asking about the arrested person but wanted full information to explain when asked.
“I was not bothered by that the family asked ... I wanted full information so that when I explain if I am asked, I explain in full”
Lt-Gen Shibiri did not inquire about the circumstances or details of Mr Molefe's first court appearance during the call on the 16th.
“No, that was not what was in my mind ... I forgot to ask what he was arrested for”
Lt-Gen Shibiri did not know Mr Molefe had his first court appearance when he called on the 16th December.
“No, it did not come to my mind but supposedly he is supposed to have appeared ... The 16th was only a holiday”
Lt-Gen Shibiri was reluctant to report that a person was charged with the murder of Armand Swart, explaining that the person was instructed not to talk about the case with anyone.
“He was given instruction that they must not talk about this case with any person”
Lt-Gen Shibiri confirmed the person was arrested, but said knowing the charge was not the first question he asked.
“The person is arrested for and that was in my mind at that time ... I forgot to ask that”
Lt-Gen Shibiri felt he had no choice but to live with the reluctance and dangers of his work due to threats, indicating a culture of fear and caution.
“You do not want to do it, but this is how we live ... You are reluctant but you feel that you have no choice ... this is just how my life is now”
Lt-Gen Shibiri stated that any inquiries about the matter should be referred to General Khumalo, Colonel Mokoena, or Brigadier Gopane.
“any person who want to enquire further about this matter, it must be enquired to General Khumalo, ... also indicated Colonel Mokoena and Brigadier Gopane”
The call made to Witness A to obtain information was either genuine and reluctant, or deliberate and orchestrated to extract information.
“if we take it that this is a genuine call to Witness A and that you are being forced to make this call to Witness A to get information that you do not want to get”
Advocate Segeels-Ncube suggests that the witness was reluctant to report to General Sibiya and that this reluctance is palpable in the transcript pages referenced.
“it is palpable from the pages that you are reluctant to report to General Sibiya”
The witness explains they declined to give immediate feedback to General ('no, General, give me time') and preferred an alternative source for the report (phone Khumalo).
“But I asked myself that, okay, so I said no, General, give me time. I will give feedback later, or else, if you are in a hurry, you can phone Khumalo to send you the report. Myself, no.”
The witness is described as feeling forced to provide information in a call to Witness A, which they did not want to give, indicating reluctance.
“you feel forced to give it”
The witness resisted crossing a particular 'line' that General Sibiya wanted them to cross, despite pressure over several days.
“there was a line you were not willing to cross. Even you were not willing to cross that line that General Sibiya wanted you to cross, and you were reluctant to do it”
Lt-Gen Shibiri states the discussion included issues of extortions and taxi violence, and that the witness was thinking broadly about ongoing problems rather than only the charge or arrest.
“we were discussing more things relating to what I thought was happening and what has been happening ... all about the taxi violence ... issues which were giving me problem on my component, being extortions done by who and who”
Lt-Gen Shibiri clarifies that his inquiry was about general issues and not specifically intertwined with the extortion or charge matters discussed.
“I do not know if ever this thing is intertwined in terms of how it is being extracted here or translated here ... I was inquiring about other things”
The exchange was a casual talk between colleagues, and the witness could not expect to be recorded in such a conversation which was cordial.
“this was casual talk between two colleagues and I could not dream that he could even record me for that matter because always when we speak, we speak cordially”
Advocate Segeels-Ncube alleges the witness made the call not to find out about the charge but to get information only available from Witness A, suggesting an attempt to lure out evidence.
“You made this call not to find out about the charge ... you are now trying to get information from Witness A that nobody else could get and you were luring him by telling him about your 2013 and 2016 experience”
Advocate Segeels-Ncube asserts that the reason for the arrest can include evidence aside from the charge, indicating an attempt to lure evidence out by playing on the witness's safety concerns and reluctance.
“reason can be more than just the charge ... you are trying to lure that evidence out of him ... you are telling him you are appearing to be reluctant to give this information ... It can only be one of two. It is a genuine call and you are genuinely reluctant ... or you are giving him the information because you are trying to get information for General Sibiya's side”
Advocate Segeels-Ncube responds that the information wanted was not for the family but for General Sibiya's side, specifically evidence against Mr Molefe, which is the real reason for the arrest beyond the charge.
“The other side, General Sibiya's side and the information that they wanted was the evidence against Mr Molefe. That is what they wanted. That is the reason for the arrest. It is not the charge. It is the reason for the arrest.”
Lt-Gen Shibiri distinguishes between the question asked (what was Molefe arrested for) and explaining the incident or charge in detail, saying the former was the intended question.
“The question to Witness A was what was he arrested for, not to explain what did he do or the incident”
Advocate Segeels-Ncube clarifies that the information wanted was not for the family but for General Sibiya's side, specifically evidence against Mr Molefe leading to his arrest.
“The other side, General Sibiya's side, and the information that they wanted was the evidence against Mr Molefe. That is what they wanted. That is the reason for the arrest. It is not the charge. It is the reason for the arrest. You wanted to know what evidence they have.”
Lt-Gen Shibiri expresses surprise that Advocate Segeels-Ncube equates reporting the arrest date with providing useful information to the family, noting the family was at court with lawyers and friends.
“it is very much surprising that you think that way ... the family was at court. The lawyers were there, the friends were there. So, what information will assist the family about knowing what is the charge?”
Lt-Gen Shibiri explains the SAPS usage of SA Police Form 14 to state a reason for arrest such as murder or rape, highlighting a difference in terminology interpretations with Advocate Segeels-Ncube.
“We use books in the SAPS, SAP 14, for example, to say reason for arrest, you write murder, rape or whatever ... my English and your English will never be the same, so you will stretch it further according to your knowledge”
Advocate Baloyis C states if the report was only to inform General Sibiya of an arrest on a murder charge, then there was no need for the call to Witness A as this information was public knowledge at the court on 16 December.
“if you only needed to report to General Sibiya that he is arrested because on a charge of murder...the accused has appeared in court on the 16th... why would you say and read that part again ...”
The witness refused to go to the farm knowing General Sibiya would ask about the reason for arrest, showing reluctance to disclose certain information.
“I did not go. At the farm I know he would ask me about this. He has invited me so that he can ask me about this.”
The witness explains personal concern and anger over being asked to relay the reason for Mr Molefe's arrest when the information was already public knowledge and involved a serious charge of murder.
“I responded to him in a bad way ... I am also here because of this issue ... why would it concern you that he wants it for the other side ... what about that would make you angry?”
Advocate Segeels-Ncube suggests the witness had difficulty telling General Sibiya that Mr Molefe was arrested for murder, and questions why the witness would be angry about such straightforward information.
“Why would you have difficulty...telling him yes, he has been arrested for murder ... if that is all you wanted to know and that is all you needed to report to General Sibiya”
The witness indicated having a serious challenge in the workplace where many unnecessary tasks and information are directed to them, including violent incidents in Port St Johns.
“I had a serious challenge in my workplace that everything is pumped to me, even including things which does not need my components ... gave example of serious and violent happening in Port St Johns”
The witness was not on the side of the National Commissioner and believes there are people fighting against this position clearly visible to all.
“he was not in the side of the National Commissioner ... people whom he believe they are fighting and it is clear for everybody to see what was happening”
In a telephone call, a person invited the witness to a farm to ask about a case and wanted information, which the witness found aggravating.
“you know he has invited you to the farm because he wants to ask you about this case ... he wants information ... you know he wants that information for the other side”
The witness expressed frustration about constantly having to respond to calls and said they sometimes had to answer calls despite being off sick.
“it is becoming more difficult and more difficult for me to respond ... sometimes I am off sick, I am phoned for a small thing ... it is annoying”
Witness A said all they wanted to know orally was the reason for the arrest which was murder, and questioned why the witness was concerned about providing that information.
“all you wanted orally you asked Witness A was the reason for the arrest and the reason for the arrest is murder ... why would you not want him to ask you for the reason which is simply murder?”
The witness stated they took the post voluntarily and cautioned themselves about the workload, but still received annoyingly frequent phone calls about minor matters.
“I voluntarily took the post and applied for the post ... even though sometimes it makes me angry to say I am off sick I am phoned for a small thing ... those are the things which is annoying”
General Sibiya requested information linking a group of five business people, a person named Zee, and Julius Malema to taxi-related extortions, as discussed between the witness and General Sibiya.
“... General Sibiya ... group of five business people ... you mentioned Zee ... you mentioned Mr Julius Malema ... taxi and extortions and you link all of that with General Sibiya”
The witness expressed discomfort that they unprompted mentioned a group of five business people, Zee, Julius Malema, and linked them to General Sibiya and a taxi/extortion issue, suggesting concern that General Sibiya needs information for these people.
“Your discomfort was exactly that, the link with all these people and your concern which you were expressing to Witness A that General Sibiya requires this information for these people that you mentioned”
The witness stated that they are not linking General Sibiya to the taxis and extortion matter and asked for time to provide feedback later.
“No ... I said no General, but I asked myself, okay, I said no General, give me time, I will give you feedback later”
Lt-General Shibiri denies that the discussion mentioned was a structured meeting and clarifies that it was a casual discussion between two colleagues, not all linked to General Sibiya.
“It was a discussion between two colleagues and we, it was not a meeting which was structured”
General Sibiyazi's request is being linked by Advocate Khumalo SC with a group of business people who are associated with extortion and the taxi industry, which Khumalo finds concerning and uncomfortable.
“It looks like you are linking General Sibiya's request with his association with all these people”
Advocate Khumalo SC reported that the person arrested, Mr Molefe, was a business partner with a group of people involved in mining interests in Brits and Rustenburg, and they were sharing information to assist ongoing investigations.
“the arrested person, being Mr Molefe, was business partners with these people I am mentioning and they have mining interests and that was information which I got and also somewhere in Brits”
Lt-General Shibiri acknowledges there is a senior official at district level, Brigadier Nkhwahu, who was trying to interfere with an investigation at the provincial level, which Shibiri denies having referred to and denies discussing Brigadier Nkhwahu.
“there is a senior official that is at district level that is trying to interfere in an investigation at provincial level”
Lt-General Shibiri denies talking about or referencing Brigadier Nkhwahu when questioned about an allegation of interference despite admitting a senior official's interference at district level.
“And you denied that ... Yes, I still deny”
General Shibiri indicated that information he received accused him of blocking bails at the district level and that he was interfering with certain investigations although he opposed bail without carrying dockets.
“I am the one who is blocking the bails ... I said my job is to oppose bail but I do not carry dockets ... I was referring to information I received from members that there are people ... indicating that I am the one who is blocking the bail”
Lt. Gen. Shibiri is opposing the bail of the suspects in the Armand Swart murder case and is perceived by some as blocking the bail.
“you are the one that is opposing the bail of the suspects in the Armand Swart murder”
Information circulates among members from Limpopo that Lt. Gen. Shibiri is blocking bail and is thus considered a problem by some who distrust people even from their own province.
“I am told by police to say there are police who are saying I am the one who is blocking the bail ... you cannot trust people because even people whom you come with from home or from the same province ... they can turn around and say things about you”
Brigadier Nkhwashu, Deputy District Commissioner Sedibeng and Acting District Commissioner had asked Sergeant Shukuru to ask Lt. Gen. Shibiri not to oppose bail of Mr Tau on a new facts application.
“Sergeant Shukuru approached me to ask about the Vereeniging murder investigation ... Brigadier Nkhwashu, the Deputy District Commissioner ... had asked him to ask me not to oppose the bail application of Mr Tau ... this is not a new bail application but a further application on new facts and we had already opposed the bail”
Sergeant Shukuru claimed to be sent by Brigadier Nkhwashu to thank Lt. Gen. Shibiri but Lt. Gen. Shibiri found the request inappropriate because he had already opposed bail and did not agree with not opposing bail.
“Sergeant Shukuru... said he was asked to convey the message of appreciation ... this previous request was that I not oppose the bail and I could not agree to that request ... I do not know why he is approaching me like this”
Brigadier Nkhwashu told prison officials that Mr Molefe was arrested at the airport and was not in possession of clothes or food, and therefore wanted to see the suspect.
“The Brigadier allegedly informed the prison officials that the accused, Mr Molefe, was arrested at the airport and was therefore not in possession of any clothes or food. He therefore wanted to see the suspect.”
Brigadier Nkhwashu arrived at the prison after visiting hours driving a white BMW SUV with no number plate, which alarmed prison officials because if he were attending in his official capacity, the vehicle registration plates should not have been removed.
“Prison officials further advised that Brigadier Nkhwashu had arrived at the facility after visiting hours driving a white BMW SUV that had no number plate. This was alarming to them because if Brigadier Nkhwashu was attending in his official capacity they questioned the removal of the vehicle registration plates.”
A senior SAPS official named Brigadier Nkhwashu, who was not actively involved in the murder investigation, visited a prison facility and accused Mr Molefe of a serious crime.
“Brigadier Nkhwa shu had attended at the prison facility on 9 December 2024 and introduced himself as the brother-in-law of Mr Molefe.”
On 10 December 2024, Mr Nkoli, Head of Groenpunt facility, asked accused Mr Molefe if he was related to Brigadier Nkhwashu, and Mr Molefe denied any relation.
“On 10 December 2024 the Head of Groenpunt facility, Mr Nkoli, went into the accused cell to ask him if he was related to Brigadier Nkhwashu. Mr Molefe said that he was not related to Brigadier Nkhwashu.”
Lieutenant-General Shibiri responded that members of the district informed him that he was the one blocking the bail for a suspect, and that some of those members came from his homeland as well as others from Limpopo.
“I am saying some members of the district informed me that there was a talk about me that I am the one who is blocking the bail and that time already he thanked the people for arranging bail as he requested and so forth. So, and I indicated that those members did not even want to tell me who is the person and the district in Gauteng they are six, not, if I am not mistaken and there are a lot of people coming from my homeland and others not far from where I am staying, working there and there is no where where me I am saying here in the transcript that is a district officer. I am saying somebody working from, people working from the district and then having interest in cases which are not even investigated by them.”
Witness A thought that Brigadier Nkhwashu was trying to interfere in the Swart murder investigation and trying to get the witness to stop the bail process.
“Witness A thought that you were talking about Brigadier Nkhwashu as being the person that had, that was trying to get you to stop bail, that was trying to stop, while, that was trying to interfere in the investigation, the Swart murder investigation.”
Lieutenant-General Shibiri told that Brigadier Nkhwashu was sending Shukuru to speak to investigators regarding bail, which happened before December, and that there was gossip about him blocking bail.
“Brigadier Nkhwashu sending Shukuru and to speak to the investigators regarding the bail, I think it happened before December and we are talking in December where I am saying some members of the district informed me that there was a talk about me that I am the one who is blocking the bail.”
Lieutenant-General Shibiri denied that the information he received related to Brigadier Nkhwashu but acknowledged it was possible it might have.
“So, you are saying that this did not relate to Brigadier Nkhwashu, it was just information that you had received.”
Lieutenant-General Shibiri said the sources did not indicate it was Brigadier Nkhwashu and he is not sure if that information referred to him.
“It might be, but they did not indicate to me it is Brigadier Nkhwashu.”
Lieutenant-General Shibiri denied knowing Zee Nxumalo, whom Witness A linked to Julius Malema and to General Shibiri, stating he never said the surname Nxumalo and only referred to someone called Zee without knowing who he is.
“When you put a surname, it is something else because I do not know. And this Zee, remember I am talking about information of which I do not even know who Zee is. And I indicated in my statement that when I was asked with the relation of Zee and General and Mr Malema to see, I was once in the office of the General. There were a female and a Chinese guy who came to report about a case of vandalism at the mine in Northern Cape, and he indicated he is a business partner of Zee Nxumalo. And that is when I heard the name in that office, so suggesting they might be knowing him because they came to his office to report. And Mr Malema, I indicated that yes, sometimes he sent me to attend to certain cases and said he received a call from Mr Malema.”
Lieutenant-General Shibiri denied during evidence that Mr Molefe was part of a cartel; rather he said Mr Molefe was involved in a group of five individuals with business interests in mining.
“I never talked about a cartel. I said the person arrested, he was involved with a group of five and they have business interest when we were talking on the phone, and I also testified now. So, my denial was about that one.”
Lt-General Shibiri denies allegations made on top of his statement and clarifies he was asked a question.
“And I am giving my reasons why I deny it. If you added something on to Zee, then I deny.”
Lt-General Shibiri states he informed and shared information about a group of five individuals involved in mining rights, including Mr Molefe and the deceased Mr Mswazi.
“I agree with the statement to say, yes, I informed, and I shared information with him to say that the same person, I got information that he was working with somebody, and they were a group of five and they are having mining rights, yes.”
Lt-General Shibiri states the group of five partners includes those who worked for the deceased Mr Mswazi as contract killers, had mining rights, and that three arrested individuals belonged to this group.
“I am saying they were a group of five partners according to information ... The arrested person ... belonging to the group of the deceased, and they were about five. They are having also companies.”
Lt-General Shibiri was told by a source that three arrested persons previously worked for Mr Mswazi as contract killers and that a person arrested with Mr Molefe was also working with Mr Mswazi and others, involved in mining.
“The source indicated to me that they arrested three. They previously worked for Mr Mswazi as contract killers. And later on ... I got further information that this person was working with Mswazi and the other people, and they were also involved in mine.”
Lt-General Shibiri explains Joe and Zee are not part of the group of five and there is rivalry between Joe and Mswazi, who belonged to different groups.
“I just indicated to say the name Joe came out to say after Mswazi's demise, then he is the one who took charge on the taxis. ... I am sure everybody knows that there was a rivalry between Joe and Mswazi, then there cannot be the same group ...”
Lt-General Shibiri states Zee is not part of the group of five because he was not mentioned in the information he received.
“Because he was not mentioned in that information I got.”
Lieutenant-General Shibiri indicated that the group of five had connections to Mr Malema, a prominent political figure, and that the Deputy National Commissioner also had ties to Malema and reported cases to Lieutenant-General Shibiri on his instruction.
“He is close to , they say he is close to Mr Malema. And also, the Deputy National Commissioner is also close to Malema because now and then he reports to him certain cases which he tasked me. So, it was in that context.”
Lieutenant-General Shibiri said that Mr Matlala, associated with the late Mswazi, was not part of the group of five but provided security for the late Mswazi.
“No, what I know, I know he was a security for the late, not part of the five. I do not know. But I know he was providing security for the late Mswazi.”
Lieutenant-General Shibiri linked a series of murders, including the Armand Swart murder, to violence within the taxi industry and to contract killers previously working for Mr Mswazi.
“I was referring to the murders happening from that particular group. So, I was thinking their link is about taxi violence... after Armand Swart murder happened, and then this person, Molefe arrested, and these people who were contract murderers from the taxi industry side...”
Lieutenant-General Shibiri confirmed the existence of a group of five persons involved in mining interests in Rustenburg and Brits, with links to taxi operations and ownership of a fleet of taxis.
“Yes, him, I am sure they are five. They are a group of five. They were five. They are having other companies together. They are having other companies together also, or mining rights together. All of them, they were known for taxi. They were owning taxis. They were owning a fleet of taxis.”
Lieutenant-General Shibiri testified that contract killers arrested were previously working for the late Mswazi, and new handlers want them out on bail.
“The sources said these contract killers who are arrested, the people who are arrested actually, they are contract killers. That was the information which I gave to them to say this is what I am told. And these people used to work by Mswazi. And now the current handlers, which we did not know who were they, they want them out on bail.”
Lieutenant-General Shibiri said information indicated Mr Molefe is linked to the deceased Mswazi and the arrested suspects accused of murder in December 2024 are linked to him.
“And now that person that gets accused of being involved in the murder in December 024 and is arrested is Mr Molefe, who you say originate from the deceased Mswazi...Information I got says so.”
Lt-General Shibiri communicated information that Katso Molefe was linked to Mswazi and they were part of a group of five involved in mining interests.
“the information you are communicating to Witness A is that Katiso Molefe was linked to Mswazi and they are part of this group of five”
Lt-General Shibiri shared information with Witness A, head of organised crime, about an ongoing investigation concerning the group of five and indicated that individuals are in a safe house and protected to pursue the investigation.
“I shared with Witness A. Witness A works for organised crime. Witness A was part of the investigation team ... they were reinforced in a safe house, having all the resources to pursue this thing”
Lt-General Shibiri described the investigative process involving a project team, headed by a project leader working with crime intelligence and multiple disciplines in the context of organised crime investigations.
“project lead has got a project team, a leader and it is a group ... crime intelligence ... determine the number in terms of the volume”
Lt-General Shibiri explained that as head of organised crime, he receives information from informers or other sources and passes it to investigators who deal with it; he does not personally conduct investigations.
“if you say to us, look, once I have got the information, I just pass it on, investigators will deal with it as head of organised crime”
Lt-General Shibiri confirmed he knew that Mr Matlala was providing security for Mr Mswazi.
“you say you knew that Mr Matlala was providing security for Mr Mswazi ? Yes”
The investigation into the group of five headed by General Lekalakala is ongoing, with other people already arrested, according to Lt-General Shibiri.
“the leader is General Lekalakala and the testimony of General Khumalo is they are still investigating. The investigating is ongoing”
Lt-General Shibiri acknowledged Sergeant Nkosi considered the late Mr Mswazi to be a father figure, but he personally only knew they were related, not the significance of the relationship.
“I do not know that he is a father figure, but I knew they are related”
Lieutenant General Sibiri explains that taxi violence falls under the jurisdiction of General Motsepe, not him, indicating he sometimes is tasked with duties outside his jurisdiction.
“there is a component dealing with taxi violence, which I indicated that it falls under General Motsepe”
Lt-General Shibiri clarified he was asked about taxi violence in the Eastern Cape, not about taxi violence syndicates generally.
“I said I was asked with taxi violence in the Eastern Cape”
Lt-General Shibiri stated he did not know that Sergeant Nkosi got to know Mr Matlala because of Mr Mswazi, but later learnt they knew each other.
“I do not know that they knew each other because of Mr Mswazi, but I knew later that they know each other”
Lieutenant General Sibiri was tasked by the DNC General Sibiya and the Minister to obtain and follow up information about the structure and persons involved in the taxi industry.
“I had a tasking from the DNC General Sibiya, that you got a tasking from the Minister ... The Minister wanted to know about the bucket system ... I phoned the president of Santago ... I asked Nkosi to say do you know the Chairperson?”
Lieutenant General Sibiri attended meetings with Santago and the National Taxi Association concerning conflicts and was tasked to get information about the taxi industry including associations and chairpersons in various regions.
“I attended meetings with Santago and the National Taxi Association where there was conflict ... The Minister wanted to know about the bucket system ... They want to know about short background of the taxi industry ... How many associations are there? How many Chairpersons in regions ...”
Lieutenant General Sibiri was not aware that Mr Matlala became one of the group of five replacing Mswazi as of October 2024 and only heard of such through investigations revealed by the General, indicating he did not know at the time of the events in December 2024.
“I do not know ... I heard what the investigation reveals ... I do not know ... You referred to Mr Matlala as providing security for Mswazi, but you do not know what General Dumisani-Kumalo says that Matlala became one of the group of five ... October 2024 ... December 2024.”
Lieutenant General Sibiri knew Joe Ferrari was the last remaining person in the taxi world and that Mswazi had already passed away.
“Joe is not part of the group of five ... Mswazi was already passed when I sent this ... Yes, I knew.”
Lieutenant General Sibiri was aware of suspects charged with the attempted murder of Tebogo Thobejane and their connection to the Arm and Swart contract killer murders but did not know that the same suspects were a group of five or linked to other murders at the time he spoke to investigators in May 2024.
“The attempted murder, I know ... Those who were arrested on the Arm and Swart ... They are linked ... Yes ... You know about the suspects ... charged on the Thobejane one ... You did not have any knowledge of connection of those contract killers ... in May 2024 ... I knew the connection of what? ... No ... I did not know ... No, I did not know.”
Lieutenant General Sibiri conveyed to investigators that the firearms found on alleged hitmen of Arm and Swart were linked to multiple murders, but he did not know their association with Mr Matlala's loan in September 2024.
“those firearms are going to link with more murders ... I conveyed that to the investigators ... There was indeed a link ... It was one of the links is to the person you took a loan from, Mr Matlala, in September 2024 ... I did not know if that would happen ...”
Lieutenant General Sibiri had a telephonic interaction with Mr Motsumi who called him about extortion issues in Reiger Park and Tanzania and referred him to Brigadier Kgorane, Provincial Head of Northwest.
“He phoned me and said he was referred to me that I am dealing with extortions ... problems in Reiger Park ... I think it was in Tanzania ... I referred him to Brigadier Kgorane, the Provincial Head of Northwest ...”
Lieutenant General Sibiri explained the complaints involving Mr Motsumi pertained to construction in Reiger Park and mining in Brits, but he does not know if Mr Motsumi has any relationship with the late Mr Mswazi or Mr Molefe or other members of the group of five.
“The complaint in Reiger Park was construction ... The complaint in Brits was mining ... I do not have knowledge ... I do not know if Mr Motsumi had any relationship with Mr Mswazi ... or Mr Molefe or other members of the group of five.”
Lieutenant General Sibiri states Mr Motsumi called him first and he then called back to give feedback about a person who would phone him.
“He called me and I called him back to give him feedback that certain person will phone him.”
Lieutenant General Sibiri's communication with Mr Motsumi was always regarding complaints and he referred Mr Motsumi to relevant officials like Brigadier Kgorane for assistance.
“My communication with Mr Motsumi, it was always about complaints ... I would always refer him to the relevant people working with him ... I referred him to Brigadier Kgorane to assist because he is the provincial head of organised crime.”
Police brigadier could only open an inquiry to follow up on mining complaints if a statement was provided by a complainant, but no one was forthcoming to give such statements.
“the brigadier could only open enquiry to follow up, but he wanted somebody to give a statement in order for them to go forward. But nobody was forthcoming.”
There were incidents involving mining operations by a person referred to as Sarmandka, including persistent demands for positions and damage caused by blasting affecting electricity.
“because what happens, what they explained is Sarmandka [?] gives them mining places to mine and then they extract and then Sarmandka buys the minerals from them. And then there was one who was blasting all over, damaging electricity and whatsoever. And when Sarmandka stops him, he wants them to give potions and whatsoever.”
Lt-Gen Shibiri and other generals are afraid to mention certain people's names, such as Motsumi, due to potential risks and close associations within investigating teams.
“police officers and Generals in particular are afraid to mention the name of certain people ... General Senona was afraid to mention was Motsumi ... I do not know, but I know why I did not want to mention certain names. Because I have established that even those who are on the other side or investigating, they are close to the same people.”
Lt-Gen Shibiri is reluctant to mention a politician's name publicly because politicians can have unpredictable followers and he has seen this risk in his 38 years working with the police.
“Politicians are followers ... You do not know who is mad out there, who can do what when you say things. So, I have seen a lot in the 38 years I am working with the police.”
Lt-Gen Shibiri fears mentioning names linked to a group of five individuals and requested that certain recordings not be played publicly for safety reasons, though he ultimately accepted the consequences of these names being revealed.
“Actually, I did not want anybody to be mentioned ... my prayer did not get through ... I did not want any name to be mentioned for that matter ... I do not want this recording to be played ... but my prayers were not met, so I will live with the consequences.”
Lt-Gen Shibiri expressed concerns that naming the cartel publicly puts his life in danger and that he is currently provided bodyguards for protection.
“I thought it was reckless from crime intelligence head ... to come here and say Shibiri he gave us the name of the cartel ... And you are having bodyguards 24 hours because you do not want to be harmed by the same cartel.”
Lt-Gen Shibiri indicates that the Commission is probing interference and infiltration of the South African Police Service (SAPS) by alleged crime syndicates at very high levels.
“Can you see this Commission is probing interference and infiltration of the SAPS? ... By alleged crime syndicates? ... I have full understanding ... And a again, without us coming to testify, the Commission will not exist.”
Lt-Gen Shibiri requested a threat risk assessment from SAPS but did not receive a response, stating he feels considered a loyalist to General Sibiya and is vulnerable without protection unlike other protected witnesses.
“I even requested a threat risk assessment, and I did not get any response, because I said I am considered maybe to be a loyalist to General Sibiya ... And those people are under protection. I am not.”
Lt-Gen Shibiri indicated that the Commission is assisting him with protection now but his legal team does not want certain recordings played publicly or discussed outside the Commission.
“The Commission is now assisting me ... my legal team, I indicated to them, I do not want this recording to be played. And if it is supposed to be played, it must be played in camera ... But my prayers were not met, so I will live with the consequences.”
The Commission is probing issues of interference and infiltration of SAPS by criminals syndicates at very high levels and if Lt-Gen Shibiri is reluctant to share relevant information, it hinders the Commission's mandate.
“Have criminal syndicates infiltrated SAPS at the very highest levels? ... If you are reluctant to share information with us, information that you know is relevant ... We are probing these very issues ... I do not want to be left with the feeling that General knew something, but he did not want to tell us or was reluctant to tell us.”
L T - General Shibiri has been a police officer for 38 years and is motivated by patriotism, initially joining due to financial need but growing into the role.
“I have been a police officer for 38 years because I am a patriot”
L T - General Shibiri indicated that in 2024 there were multiple calls related to Mr Motsumi, and in 2025 he received a call connected to an enquiry during the SARPC preparatory meeting.
“You speak of 2024 and then you speak of 2025...it is 2025 when he called me. That is why I remember because I attended the SARPC preparatory for AGM of SARPCO...when I received the call”
L T - General Shibiri explained that there was a formal complaint and a case was opened at a particular police station connected to calls from Mr Motsumi, and investigators were involved in that matter.
“Yes, there was a case opened in that particular station...there was a formal complaint...there were investigators”
Brigadier Kgorane can attest to the case related to Mr Motsumi's calls and enquiries in 2025, and while L T - General Shibiri does not have WhatsApp, Brigadier Kgorane may still have forwarded information relevant to the case.
“Brigadier Kgorane can attest to that...I do not have my WhatsApp, but I think he will still have the WhatsApp's forwarded to him of what was being depicted and what was happening”
L T - General Shibiri confirmed that the complaints involved arrests linked to robberies in the particular area.
“They did attend to numerous complaints whereby they arrested people who were robbing in that particular area, robbing the chrome or whatsoever”
L T - General Shibiri does not know much about the association between Sergeant Nkosi and Mr Motsumi but believes they know each other and that prominent people often escalate police matters through high-level political contacts instead of police stations.
“I do not know really, but it seems they know each other...prominent people, they do not like going down to the police station. They start there on the top. They will phone their member of parliament from their constituency, who will phone the Minister...”
L T - General Shibiri does not know of any association between General Sibiya and Mr Motsumi but suggests it is possible due to their networking among prominent business people.
“I do not know. They might have, because I said he was referred to me, and I do not know who referred him...may be they might be knowing each other because he knows a lot of business people...”
General was uncomfortable with mentioning certain names during testimony, leading to an agreement to proceed without revealing those names.
“the General did not want another name also disclosed... the General was uncomfortable about those other names”
The decision to not mention certain names was more a concession than an agreement among counsel.
“It was more … More of a concession than an agreement, Chair”
There were concerns Raised that Generals investigating certain people are afraid to mention their names, raising public concern about safety.
“it is a sad day that Generals who are supposed to be investigating these people are scared of them”
General Senona eventually mentioned Mr Motsumi but preferred to keep the name of another very dangerous person confidential due to safety concerns.
“General Senona did not want to mention Mr Motsumi... The explanation in the application was, that name belongs to a very dangerous person”
General Shibiri explained the danger is not to himself but about protecting people close to him, such as family and children, from exposure to dangerous people.
“The danger might be, I know the senior counsel, I know where the children are going and we went to school together and know everything in and out... The danger is not about me”
Lt-Gen Shibiri confirmed it is common worldwide not to mention names of people subject to investigations for safety and privacy reasons.
“Yes, it happens worldwide that people subject to investigations sometimes we do not mention”
The task team appointed to investigate people mentioned in the Commission is constituted by members who worked at the PKT, led by General Khumalo who makes allegations against them, causing suspicion about neutrality.
“And when we learned what is the team constitution, is that it is constituted by members who worked at the PKT and the leader is still General Khumalo, who is one of the people making allegations against us.”
People were promised posts to get information against the General, and there was an attempt to remove him by a circle of people working together.
“People are given promised posts if they can get information against you.”
Lt-Gen Shibiri confirmed he has informers within SAPS and this contributed to his ability to assist investigations and anticipate events.
“I also have informers... this is why I was able to assist the team to say, this is coming, this is going to happen”
General Shibiri admitted that some police officers receive promotions or offers of promotions in exchange for providing information or negative information about others including him.
“There is this suggestion that some police officers are getting promotions or being offered promotions for giving information or negative information about you”
General Sibiya was not moved until General Khumalo testified at the Ad-Hoc Committee, after which he was moved and suspended.
“I was not moved anywhere until General Khumalo testified at the Ad-Hoc Committee. Then... I got the letter to be moved somewhere. And then after that I got the letter of suspension.”
There is a team wanting to make sure those not toeing the line are gotten rid of.
“There is a team there wanting to make sure that those who are not toeing the line with us, we get rid of them.”
General Sibiya suspects some promotions within SAPS are dubious but states these promotions follow SAPS policy and some are due to deserving reward.
“With due respect, promotion in SAPS, there is a policy... I am talking about suspicion... The suspicion comes from the person approved and promised a rank for information.”
General Sibiya asserts he arrested many police and others while working and does not know why people are angry with him, now seeing himself as a villain.
“For the past years which I was working, I arrested a lot of police, a lot of people... I do not know why the people is angry.”
General Sibiya believes suspicion against him is orchestrated without merit and is not supported by evidence.
“You remember his evidence on the White House when he was asked why suspicion... It must be based on the merit of something.”
There is a suspicious transaction in October 2023 involving General Sibiya's bank account with a credit and related purchase which he explains as a suit bought by a friend who transferred money to him.
“...credit to your account of 58820 on the 11th of October 2023... it is a purchase at Zegna for 53538... a friend wanted to buy a suit but they transferred money into your account for you to pay for them.”
Lieutenant-General Shibiri states that he was requested by the secretary to have the money deposited to his accounts for swiping.
“And then he requested the secretary to deposit the money to my accounts so that we can swipe, yes.”
Lieutenant-General Shibiri denies that the purchase of a suit at Zegna for 53500 was a birthday gift from Mr Matlala, Mr Molefe, or Mr Motsumi.
“No, it was not.”
Lieutenant-General Shibiri states that the deposit for the suit was made by Africa Steel, owned by Mr Chang, who was buying a suit for his son’s wedding in China.
“Commissioner, you can check the deposit is from Africa Steel. Africa Steel is owned by Mr Chang, who happened to be a friend of mine. And then he was the one who was buying a suit. His son was getting married. He was getting to China. So, he was buying a suit at Zegna.”
Lieutenant-General Shibiri reports that Sergeant Nkosi mentioned an extortion case and a botched drug investigation in KZN linked to Zee Nxumalo.
“So, it is true if it is from him. It is those extortion cases. ... Yes, and some botched drug investigation at KZN.”
Lieutenant-General Shibiri confirms he does not personally know Zee Nxumalo or relationship between him, Julius Malema or himself, despite knowledge of such relationship conveyed to Witness A.
“My recollection of the matter is limited to that interaction, and I have no personal knowledge of Zee Nxumalo or of any relationship between him, Lt-Gen Sibiy, or Julius Malema. ... I was asked, do you know Zee? You said no. ... I know the name, not him. I do not know him.”
Lieutenant-General Shibiri was informed by Govender in Limpopo that General Khan was suspended or the intention was to suspend him on 19 September.
“I was told by one of his friends, Govender in Limpopo. ... I understand Khan was suspended on Monday. ... The last time I checked, it was an intention to suspend. Let me confirm.”
Lieutenant-General Shibiri acknowledges the existence of a relationship among Zee Nxumalo, Julius Malema, and General Sibiy but states he only knows the name of Zee Nxumalo and not him personally.
“Yes, and I explained why I say that, because of those people who came to his office in my presence, and also the taskings from the DNC indicating he got a request for intervention from Mr Malema. ... I know the name, not him.”
Lieutenant-General Shibiri describes Zee Nxumalo as a tall Zulu guy staying in Sandton, and close to Julius Malema.
“Yes, there is this other guy. His name is Zee. He is also staying in Sandton. He is a Zulu guy, the tall one. ... And then he is close to Malema.”
A client is willing to assist the Commission but requests the testimony be given partially off camera due to sensitivities involving covert operations and a high risk unit based in Gauteng.
“we filed an application for our client's testimony to be given partially in camera ... there are some sensitivities ... he runs some covert operations, and there is a very high risk unit that he is running based in Gauteng”
The safety of a witness who deals with informers and operational contacts may be at risk if their testimony is given publicly, as recognition by others may incorrectly label those associated as informers, which increases the risk to the witness.
“because the witness deals with informers and the likes, and operational contacts, their safety may be at risk ... somebody who has witnessed our client with a particular informer ... there could be conclusions drawn ... that the particular individuals ... were acting in a capacity of being informers”
An application is made for the witness to give evidence remotely and off camera, potentially employing voice-altering technology or a process where another person speaks into the microphone to conceal the witness's identity.
“we are asking for, in principle, is for the evidence to be given remotely ... off camera ... if the technology ... is in possession of this technology, voice-altering technology ... what we could do is that we could borrow the process that is employed when a translator is used in proceedings”
The potential risk of recognition of Witness G's voice exists but this does not necessarily relate to fears about being seen with other witnesses; identity concealment is important in the current era of social media where connections are made globally.
“The potential risk of the recognition of his voice does not necessarily pertain to the fears ... regarding him having been seen with other witnesses ... because of the era that we are living in, where people are just connecting dots everywhere on social media ... we are trying to be as prudent as possible to conceal the identity of the witness”
The witness cannot be visually identified as he is running agents and informants, and showing his face would endanger them.
“If he is running agents and informants, his face cannot be shown because that will endanger the people who speak to him”
Voice-altering technology was investigated but no satisfactory results were found, and it is not clear the witness will be identifiable by voice.
“we have investigated whether we have voice-altering technology, and we did not come up with any satisfactory results ... It is not clear to me that he will be identifiable by voice”
Some questions asked during witness testimony may render the witness identifiable due to references to publicly available information, but such questions cannot be avoided as they are directly relevant to the Commission's inquiries.
“some of the questions ... may render him identifiable with reference to information that is publicly available ... those are not questions I can avoid asking because they will be directly relevant to the enquiries of the Commission”