Witness: Commissioner Julius Mkhwanazi. Evidence Leader: Adv M Sello SC.
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Commissioner Mkhwanazi appeared without legal representation today after a financial disagreement with his previous legal team.
“we could not reach some agreement in terms of finances”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi postponed his appearance today because his mother, Mrs. Rofina Petunia Mkhwanazi, passed away and her funeral was held a day after the postponement.
“when we postponed to today, it was because your mother had passed away...she was scheduled to be buried on the following Saturday, which was the day after the postponement was granted”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi provided a copy of the funeral programme, death certificate, and ID of his late mother, Mrs. Rofina Petunia Mkhwanazi, as evidence.
“you had shared with us...a copy of the programme for the funeral...and you kindly provided us with...a copy of the death certificate and a copy of her ID”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi is the second of seven children of Mrs. Petunia Mkhwanazi, according to the funeral programme obituary.
“the obituary stated that Mrs Petunia Mkhwanazi had seven children, and you were the second of these seven children”
The funeral of Mrs. Petunia Mkhwanazi was held at a church in Tsakani.
“was it a church...The service was at the church...Same street...Yes”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi confirmed the identity documents and death certificate of Mrs. Petunia Mkhwanazi, including that her ID number begins with 75, indicating she was born in 1965.
“confirm that is the ID document of Mrs Petunia Mkhwanazi...death certificate...the ID number starts with 75...which means she was born in 1965”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi acknowledged that he was born in 1975, making himself 10 years younger than his mother, Mrs. Petunia Mkhwanazi, who was born in 1965, and explained that she was his stepmother who raised him from a young age.
“you are making your mother 10 years older than you...She is my stepmother. She raised me since I was 8 years or 7 years old. She is married to my father”
According to the Department of Home Affairs letter, Mr. William Mkhwanazian and Ms. Foleni Maria Mkhwanazian are recorded as the parents of Commissioner Mkhwanazi, but he disputes that they are his grandparents as claimed earlier.
“According to the department's records, Mr Mkhwanazian and Ms Foleni Maria Mkhwanazian are recorded as the son of...Those are my grannies...Those are my grandparents...No, I do not think they are my grandparents”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi states that his grandmother won him in a court of law after a dispute over custody following his parents' divorce.
“The unfortunate part is that the story that I got from my grandmother, my father confirmed that they won me in the 10 court of law. There was a dispute between both sides, I think when they were divorced, that is why they took over you see.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi was raised by his grandmother after his mother separated from his father, and only received his birth certificate when he had an ID, accompanied by his grandmother.
“And I was accompanied by my grandmother to get that ID because she raised me up until the stepmother came in.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi says that although Maria Foleni Mkhnawazi is reflected as his mother on his birth certificate, she is not his biological mother but the person who raised him after his mother separated from his father.
“She is my grandmother, she is the one that took responsibility because it was me and my brother. Then there was my father, then they took responsibility. But they went to court for us... they are my grandparents. She is the one that took responsibility because it was me and my brother...”
Commissioner Mkhanazi reveals a court dispute where another woman claimed to be his mother and caused a political dispute, but she gave them love until the father remarried.
“There was another lady who claimed that we are, she is our mother, something like that. The politics that I did not want to dig in, yes. But she gave us love until my father got married.”
Commissioner Mkhwanzai claims that the woman who raised him is his mother although he was not born to her.
“I am still saying that she raised me, she is my mother. Yes, I was not born out to her, but she raised me since I was young.”
Ms Sello alleges that Mr Mkhanazi lied to the Commission by falsely claiming that a deceased woman was his mother to obtain a postponement to avoid appearing before the Commission.
“I put to Mr Mkhanazi that he lied to the Commission to avoid appearing before the Commission, and this is the basis on which I draw that conclusion.”
Mr Mkhanazi's birth certificate identifies his parents as his grandparents, indicating he misrepresented his parentage to the Commission.
“The very people identified in his birth certificate as his parents are actually his grandparents.”
COMMISSIONER MKHWANAZI claims his father is William Mkhwanazi and that the birth certificate issued by Home Affairs incorrectly states Petunia Mkhwanazi was married to Gogo Titus Mkhwanazi, who is not his father.
“My confusion arises because at item 1, your father is listed as Mr William Mkhwanazi, who you say is your grandfather... Mrs Petunia Mkhwanazi is said to have been married to Mr Gogo Titus Mkhwanazi. That is not your father, is it? No, that is my father. That is my biological father.”
COMMISSIONER MKHWANAZI states that Petunia Mkhwanazi was his stepmother who raised him as one of her own children after his mother passed away.
“Mrs Petunia Mkhwanazi was your stepmother because she was married to your father after your mother passed away. She then raised you consequently and that is why she has always considered you one of her children.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi alleges that Home Affairs provided incorrect birth certificates and documents related to his family.
“So, Home Affairs has it wrong. The Commission must accept that Home Affairs has it wrong.”
COMMISSIONER MKHWANAZI states that he and his brother were raised as children by their grandparents, who took responsibility for them when they were very young.
“They are my grand parents, and I am not ashamed to say so, not to say I am disowning them. And when they raised me and my brother, they raised me as their own kid. When I could not defend, when I could not do anything, as young as 1 year, 2 years maybe, they took ownership of me. That is why I am still alive today.”
COMMISSIONER MKHWANAZI alleges that Home Affairs records do not list him and his brother as related to their father after his father passed away, making him feel uncomfortable and raising political challenges.
“All those documents that are coming from Home Affairs, they do not put me and my brother anywhere from my father, or when my father passed on, from what my mother or my stepmother registered at Springs... It makes me to feel uncomfortable now because it raises some politics now, some challenges.”
COMMISSIONER MKHWANAZI asserts that William Mkhwanazi is his grandfather and the father of his father, Titus Mkhwanazi.
“William, he is my grandfather. He is the father of my father. Yes, he is the second born child of William Mkhwanazi.”
Ms Petunia Mkhwanazi had seven children including three sisters and some brothers born from her and Babu Mkhwanazi.
“It is three sisters and one son ... those are Petunia's, Mom Petunia's birth children, biological children ... Mom Petunia and Babu Mkhwanazi, yes.”
The Home Affairs letter and page 11 document refer only to one child born to Petunia Mkhwanazi and Titus Mkhwanazi and this child was born in 1994.
“The last sentence of paragraph 2 reads: "Having indicated that Ms Petunia Mkhwanazi was married to Mr Gogo Titus Mkhwanazi ... this was established through the birth record of one of their children ..." It is in respect of that named child, born in 1994 ... they are medical records of a newborn ...”
Home Affairs could not locate the marriage certificate of Ms Petunia Mkhwanazi and Mr Gogo Titus Mkhwanazi, but stated that they were married based on birth records of one child.
“As the marriage records could not be located ... That is why I am saying in terms of ours, anything that has to do with courts, it is at the Justice Department or at the courts. You will find anything, every documents. If they say they cannot locate ...”
The letter from Home Affairs and page 11 document only speak specifically about one child and do not deny the existence of other children born to Ms Petunia Mkhwanazi.
“The letter from Home Affairs and page 11 are not in themselves evidence that there are no other children, that there was only one child. It just speaks, it is a document that just speaks to one child ... And nothing more.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi maintains that he did not lie to the Commission about the number of children born to Ms Petunia Mkhwanazi and his family background.
“I did not lie. I still maintain I did not lie. ... I am still saying the mother that we buried, or we are burying on that date of ... she is my mother ... She raised me as a parent ... And there is no reason for me to lie.”
In the culture of Commissioner Mkhwanazi, the wife of one's father is considered one's mother, and the term 'stepmother' is a Western/English concept that does not apply.
“I know some of us in our cultures, your father's wife is your mother. There is no such thing as stepmother, step-this. Those are English terms. Those are Western terms ... The person that raises you is your mother, full stop.”
Advocate Sello accused Commissioner Mkhwanazi of lying to the Commission by relying on false facts to obtain a postponement for his appearance.
“The point I seek to make is you know the correct, truthful position, and that position is as reflected in the documents, and therefore you lied to the Commission. ... You deny you lied. You say you are learning these facts for the first time ... My submissions to the Commission is that you must be held in contempt for lying, deliberately lying to the Commission, when you knew that the facts you were relying upon to obtain your postponement were false.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi asserts she did not lie to the Commission and attended a consultation despite having a funeral the next day, respecting the Commission's process.
“I did not lie or run away. You cannot run away. I am a South African. I do not have any other identity or other citizenship.”
A document from the Department of Home Affairs introduced is a notice of birth, not a birth certificate, recorded on 23 April 1994, with the mother named as Foleni Maria who went to Home Affairs to register it.
“The document at page 6, which comes from the Department of Home Affairs, is not itself a birth certificate. It is a notice of birth recorded on the 23rd of April 1994.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi states she had a programme with her on the day of the consultation, which was prior to the election, and she wanted to vote but had no ID at the time, so another person helped her get necessary ID documents.
“I remember it was before the elections. I was putting pressure on her that I want to go and vote. I want to go and vote, I do not even have an ID. I think she went and collected that certificates so that we can go and get, as I have said that she is the one who took my ID, who assisted me to get my ID.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi states the ID she currently has was obtained with the assistance of an unnamed woman who collected certificates and documents for her, and she faced many questions during that process.
“She assisted, this ID that I am having is because of her. As I have said that once I was living as a stepmother, she made sure that some necessary documents in my life are there while she was still old, but she went and collected. And we went with. And I know that when we were getting that ID, there were many questions that were asked to her.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi confirms she received her ID before the elections and voted early on election day.
“Before the elections. And I woke up early and voted.”
Advocate Sello accuses Commissioner Mkhwanazi of misleading the Commission, suggesting a contempt of court issue, which Commissioner Mkhwanazi denies and stands by her explanations.
“My closing remark was that the Commissioners should hold you in contempt for having misled, and I invited you to give your comment to that, and you indicate that your response was you stand by your explanation and you should not be held in contempt, correct?”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi agrees to prepare a supplementary affidavit to respond properly to the issues raised and make the matter open to other family members.
“It is important to do that, Commissioner, you see, so that other family members, I will be open to them about that affidavit, because I know that, you know ... politics, you see. As I have said, this is going to open and you see, but I am going to do that, to respond to the questions.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi intends to lodge her affidavit within two days after her testimony is concluded and needs documents from her granny's bundle to assist the Commission.
“I will appeal to the Commission after the testimonies of this week, then I will try ... Because I must still get those documents, they are my granny's bundle, you see, go to Granny's house, may I get these documents because it is going to assist the Commissioner.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi submitted a supplementary statement to the Madlanga Commission, which includes five annexures.
“Did you submit a supplementary statement? ... The actual statement is a six-paged document for the moment, and attached to that document are five annexures.”
The supplementary statement submitted by Commissioner Mkhwanazi is undated and unsigned on the last page, page 6.
“The last page, page 6, is undated and unsigned ... it is unsigned ... the last page is unsigned and is undated , does not have a name, page 6.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi affirms that the undated and unsigned document is nevertheless his statement and places it on record as such.
“Yes, but I place it on record that it is my statement.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi expressed concern that justice was not done to him regarding his supplementary statement submission and made an amended statement to raise the issue with the Commission.
“I feel that justice was not done on me, Commissioners ... I made an amended statement, because I wanted to raise that with the Commission ... If the Commissioners say no, it is out, it is out, but we have also submitted it too.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi indicated that he did not have the opportunity to look afresh at the wording of the statement before signing it and that the Commission is now giving him the opportunity to do so.
“As I have said before that last time I signed , and I feel that justice was not done on me, Commissioners ... I did not have that opportunity ... at least now you are giving me an opportunity to sit on a tea break ...”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi personally typed the statement and is not familiar with computer functions such as tracking changes.
“I typed it by myself, you see ... I am not the computer fundi ...”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi may have used orange font color during corrections to the statement while rechecking it before submission to meet the deadline.
“I think when I was correcting something ... I will check that ... I had to type and recheck, and because I had to make sure that I meet the due date.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi revealed he is aging and losing his hearing and sight, affecting his ability to hear proceedings fully and read documents.
“I think I am aging, Commissioner. I am losing everything, even the sight ... but at least when I am wearing, I can read ...”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi submitted and amended his statement during the consultation because he felt some words did not represent him correctly and he did not have enough time to read every sentence at that time.
“No, we submitted during, remember, during the time of consultation, my attorneys submitted, my then-attorney submitted and amended, you see, because I felt that some of the words that were used they were not representing me correctly, and I did not have enough time that time to read each and every sentence, each and everything.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi denied that his amended statement is supplementary, stating it is amended, not supplementary.
“No, I did not say it is a supplementary. Yes. You say it is an amended. Yes.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi expressed concern about re-using annexure numbering as it causes confusion between documents from different dates and suggested that any new annexures be added as a separate supplementary statement.
“And in our engagements with you and your attorney and the, during the consultation, we realised that you numbered the annexures JD1 to JD61, but effectively, the bulk of them were a rearrangement and renumbering of annexures that are already on record as JD1 to JD15. And we said you cannot do that, it is going to cause confusion, okay, because there is a risk that one document may end up with two annexure numbers ... And we cannot have that situation because it makes it impossible to read the material. ... And we suggest that, to the extent that there are new annexures that you want to add, please prepare a supplementary statement, as a separate supplementary statement, raising the issues you want to raise and attaching the new annexures.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi amended his initial statement filed in December 2025, resulting in an amended statement now containing 61 annexures rather than the original 15.
“You amended it, yes. Yes. And now, in that amended, the amended Julius Mkhwanazi statement now had 61 annexures.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi raised a concern about the wording of his statement, feeling that the content was twisted as 'alleged' even though there was case number evidence, making it unrepresentative of him.
“I felt that when the other witnesses were raising issues, you see, they were, it was not in their statement. I read their statements, it was not alleged, it was said, she has done that, she has done that, but on mine, when it came from you, Mr Commissioner, or when the person was typing or correcting it, it is now everything that I am saying it is allegedly, allegedly, even though we have got case numbers, even though in some of the things we have got evidence, but it is twisted as alleged.”
There is difficulty and confusion caused by having both the original and revised annexures, which complicates locating and referencing documents properly.
“To the extent that we need to look at an annexure, we will obviously look at the original because the original is what tells us where each annexure is. We do not want to look at the supplementary for that purpose because it will cause the very confusion that you say will be caused.”
Mr Mkhwanazi prepared annexures that could run into about 20 pages each, and splitting these documents into multiple annexure numbers causes difficulties in referencing them consistently.
“When Mr Mkhwanazi prepared the annexures, a single annexure could potentially run into about 20 pages, and it is a multiplicity of documents. And now he wants to split up the documents and give them a different annexure number.”
The supplementary statement to be signed during the tea break reverts to the numbering of the first statement, causing confusion in annexure numbering and identification.
“This supplementary statement that we are signing now at tea has reverted to the numbering of the first. That is why he starts with JD16(i). The last one was JD15. So where all that lands us, I do not know, but I am in your hands.”
The original statement should be used to locate annexures so that transcripts reflect annexure pages and evidence based on originals, preventing loss of continuity and clarity when using revised annexures.
“My proposal is that we do not discard the original statement, because to locate the annexures, we need the original statement, because our transcript will reflect annexure pages and the evidence relating to those annexures based on the original.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi feels prejudiced because his documents are still being sorted and not fully ready, impacting his defence.
“Commissioner Mkhwanazi, I do not want to feel discriminated or prejudiced, you see... the evidence leader came in and said, Commissioner Mkhwanazi's documents are still being sorted... I felt that I have a defence because I have got documents that talks to that... I felt that I have got to be honest... I agree with...”
Mr Mkhwanazi's documents have been split up into more attachments than contained in the original documents, causing an increase in number of attachments without difference in content.
“My understanding ... is that the documents are not different, but that you have split up some, the result or rather the upshot of which is that you have more attachments than we have in the original documents and the additional documents to your six-page statement.”
There is no difference in documents attached to amended statement versus original; only attachment splitting, increasing the number of attachments.
“The documents are not different, but that you have split up some... otherwise additional numbering rather, but the documents are the same as I understand Ms Sello.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi confirms that he has signed a supplementary statement dated 14 April 2026 that addresses six issues not covered in his original statement.
“you have your name there Julius Doctor Mkhwanzi. It is dated the 14th of April 2026, and then there is a signature appearing above your name. Do you confirm that is your statement? ... Yes, Chair. ... In this statement, you deal with six issues that seek to address matters that arose either after you testified or that you believed you had not covered in your original statement.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi explains that promotions of police ranks such as director, deputy director, chief superintendent, superintendent, and inspector within EMPD follow prescribed processes managed by Human Resources and sponsored by the Acting Chief of Police.
“The promotions of directors, deputy directors, chief superintendent, superintendent, and inspectors. We followed, as a department, we followed the processes and procedure. ... It is not our process, it is a process that is managed by HR ... As the Acting Chief of Police, I had to proceed with the processes where the Chief of Police started ... He was the Chairperson of directors. He is the one that invited me and HR in that process. I was part of the panel, but the Chief of Police, Isaac Mapiyeye, was the Chairperson of that process ... when he was suspended, I had to continue with those that were left. ... I had to continue, because the delegation of the letter, it is very clear ... you continue with your own responsibilities, but also you exercise your authority on what you are appointed.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi says he submitted annexures as proof that the process for police promotions started by Chief Mapiyeye was not started by him, and explained that sometimes he acted in both roles of Chief of Police and HOD without appointment letters due to rotations.
“I submitted annexures to prove that the acting letters ... it was not true to say that ... Commissioner Revo Spies, he gave a testimony that I acted on my own, and sometimes I will act on both positions ... without any appointment letters ... and you cannot act on both position ... then it was for me to prove that, and to prove that the process was not started by me. It was started by the Chief of Police. Then when he was suspended, I had to continue ... I do not have those copies, but the process started three years before this process ...”
The mandate of the Traffic Department and Metropolitan Police Department are different, with Traffic Department lacking policing function while EMPD focuses on crime prevention and policing.
“The mandate of Traffic Department and Metro Police is not the same. Traffic Department does not have policing in it. Our mandate is saving crime prevention and policing.”
The National Police Commissioner issued a national instruction in 2012 that all Metropolitan Police Departments must retrain and train officers who do not have adequate law enforcement skills.
“national instruction from the National Police Commissioner in 2012 that all the Metro Police Departments must retrain and train and skill those that do not have”
The skills development programme for the Metropolitan Police Department (EMPD) was intentionally ignored by the training division under Commissioner Isaac Mapiyeye, Revo Spies, and the then Director Ndumiso Gcwabe, despite a mandate to train and retrain law enforcement skills.
“training division under Commissioner Isaac Mapiyeye, Revo Spies, and the then Director Ndumiso Gcwabe intentionally ignored the implementation of a Law Enforcement Skills Programme for Metropolitan Police Departments”
Training for law enforcement skills have not been conducted properly in the Metropolitan Police Department despite national directives, resulting in unskilled candidates appointed to positions such as Director in Logistics.
“people that were, or the candidate that was able to get the position of Director in Logistics...does not have that certain skill”
There was a failure in training within the Metropolitan Police Department; recruits and seniors lack proper government training, including absence of necessary diplomas for some senior staff.
“there are seniors who do not have even a diploma of a Metro Police or Traffic Diploma, who are not trained by government institutions”
Madam Linda Gxasheka preferred a certain candidate during a recruitment and promotion process for police positions, which was disputed.
“Madam Linda Gxasheka has mentioned that they had separate discussions, that she preferred a certain candidate.”
Some promoted officers, including Deputy Director Ivan Du Plessis, lacked current police work experience and requisite refresher training yet were promoted.
“Some of the people that were promoted, like Deputy Director Ivan Du Plessis, he had more than 19 years not working for EMPD, not working for any Metro Police Department. And in terms of the law, you are supposed to go and sit at the college and do a refresher course...we have raised it, but because we were not that in authority at that time, we accepted it and we promoted it as a senior, without even that skill.”
EMP promotions follow HR guidance and policies to ensure fairness and proper qualifications are met before promotion.
“EMPD promotion, that to follow all the processes and procedures. And we are guided by HR in terms of—in fact, HR is guiding all the department... those that were promoted, it was fair from a director and inspectors because there are qualifications that are needed, NQF level that is needed for a certain position. And if that was not—if that did not take place or if that did not happen, HR was going to stop the processes.”
Internal union grievances and challenges concerning recruitment and promotion processes have caused re-advertisement of certain positions and lengthy disputes.
“We have got unions that are also sitting in those processes... if unions are here, they are putting grievances, we are going to CCMA... we were challenging in South African Local Bargaining Council, then we were able to win some... We were referred back by the Chairperson of those committees that go back and advertise and re-advertise those positions. Those processes are taking place.”
There was a perception that a black female officer promoted recently did not have required qualifications, but this was denied and said to be false.
“They claimed, and Commissioner Revo Spies claimed that the lady is the only one who did not have the required—it was not a required candidate requirement per se. But she is the only one who did not have that qualification. All of them, they did have it. I am saying it is false, it is not true.”
Commissioner Revo Spies failed to ensure skills development and proper capacitation within the department.
“That was a challenge that we did not do. And it was headed by Commissioner Revo Spies... And he failed us dismally on that.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi responds to an allegation by Commissioner Spies regarding a lady without the requisite qualifications, stating that this lady was not the only one without the necessary qualifications.
“it is your response really to, you say, an allegation by Commissioner Spies... Commission Spies took issue with, was not the only one without the requisite qualifications”
The newly registered law enforcement skills programme exists and includes different courses according to attachments provided by SAPS and National Commissioner instructions to all Metro Police departments.
“this new skills development, it is having different courses, according to the attachment... as per SAPS, or as per the National Commissioner's instruction to all Metro Police departments”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi admits that the EMpd (Ekurhuleni Metro Police Department) was not following the prescribed newly registered law enforcement skills programmes of 2012.
“is it your evidence that, notwithstanding Annexures 16I and Roman II, the EMPD was not following this prescript?... We did not even start on it”
The law enforcement colleges are managed nationally by RTMC although the local operational part runs and employs instructors, and the colleges must comply with all national instructions.
“our colleges are managed by RTMC nationally... ours is to run the operational part of it and employ and have instructors... we are supposed to comply to all national instructions”
There is an issue raised that documents related to the skills programme have been received with an unexplained red pen manuscript addition, indicating a possible problem with the authenticity or alteration of the documents.
“and this is what is raising issues... this is how you received it”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi issued an instruction when acting to ensure that colleges can run the skills courses to identify gaps in policing skills related to crime prevention, but cannot yet provide the copy of that instruction.
“When I was acting, I issued an instruction... instructed college department that can run this course... identifying the gap that we are going to have because our members are operational doing crime prevention... but if we are not having the skill, it becomes a challenge... But I cannot get the copy”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi requests verification whether EMPD is accredited to run all the courses and is unsure about accreditation for a particular course.
“I am requesting that we even check with RTMC... Do you know if EMPD is accredited?... it is accredited to run some of the courses, but on this one, I am not sure”
Annexures JD16I and JD16II represent SAPS national programmes imposed as law enforcement courses.
“Annexure JD16I and II, are actually courses imposed by SAPS... These are SAPS national programmes”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi denies the allegation by Commissioner Revo Spies that he commanded the Community Liaison Unit (CLU) since 2014/2015, stating he only commanded a public order policing unit focusing strictly on crowd management at that time.
“Commissioner Revo Spies raised the issue that I commanded CLUs since 2014/015, of which I am saying I am denying that that is not true. At that time, I was just the commander of a public order policing unit concentrating strictly on crowd management”
Witness was promoted and not directly giving instructions to the unit; the unit reported to other commanders and the witness was strictly doing crowd management; some people came with grievances about CLU and were not employed by the city but wanted positions or full employment by the city.
“They only came back when the new Chief of Police, Isaac Mapiyeye, and Deputy Chief Mzolo handed over a new team after disbandment of an old unit in 2019. That is when I started giving instructions following the chain of command to the chief superintendent, superintendent inspectors. When it came back, I was now promoted to another level... I was strictly doing crowd management... there were people that came in with grievances that they worked with CLU and they were not employed by the city. Now they want to be given positions or they want to be employed fully by the city.”
CLU was reporting to an Acting Director Machete, Deputy Chief of Police Mzolo, and former Chief of Police Isaac Mapiyeye; there was also Chief Mahlabe who resigned; a new team was handed over after disbandment of an old unit in 2019.
“CLU was reporting to a another inspector, superintendent, Acting Director Machete, who was my director at that time when I was a superintendent, Deputy Chief of Police, Mzolo, and the former Chief of Police, who is marked Isaac Mapiyeye. There was another Chief of Police, Chief Mahlabe, who has resigned. They only came back when the new Chief of Police, Isaac Mapiyeye, and Deputy Chief Mzolo handed over a new team after disbandment of an old unit in 2019”
The old unit was disbanded before 2019 and later reconstituted into a new unit by Chief Mapiyeye.
“No, it was disbanded before 2019... It is a new unit, but it was disbanded again after that... It was disbanded, then it was formed again...”
Some members associated with CLU reported directly to headquarters with senior officers like Deputy Chief Revo Spies while the witness was operationally a superintendent and unaware of their activities.
“Sometimes they were reporting directly to headquarters where the deputy chief, Revo Spies, and other seniors were sitting. By that time, I was just a superintendent working operationally. I do not know what they were doing, what was happening there.”
The witness became director of special services in 2009 and oversaw a specialized unit that liaised with communities to address local challenges like protests and drugs; the unit had own hierarchy including chief superintendent, superintendents, and inspectors.
“It was 2009 - when I was promoted as a director... They were following under my line of command, because they belonged to a specialised unit... They had their own chief superintendent, their own superintendents, and inspectors... It is a unit that goes to communities, works with communities, especially where we are having challenges... protests, drugs...”
The unit liaises with community leaders to address social needs and challenges such as drugs and domestic violence, serving as ears and eyes before deploying public order or crime prevention units.
“They will liaise with our communities, community leaders, check the social needs, the challenges... drugs, domestic violence... They will be our ears and eyes before you deploy, or sometimes they will intervene...”
The unit is comparable to Community Safety Forums in municipalities, working closely with leaders daily but distinct from community police forums (SAPs).
“They work with communities very close to us... It is not community forums it is community safety forums to municipalities... We call it CSF, Community Safety Forums... SAPS is CPF, with us it is CSF...”
Members of the unit reporting to the director in 2019 were registered and trained police officers, not non-officer community members.
“Members of the CLU that began reporting to you in 2019 were those police officers... They were registered police officers... trained police officers.”
CLUs were a group that had an agreement with the former Chief of Police to protect him, and they made promises that excluded the city itself.
“‘Kindly receive the response from our side from the so-called former SLU members. It is a group that had an agreement with the former chief to protect him. They had promises, which does not include the city.’”
The group submitted a memorandum with seven ultimatums to the office of the city manager and claimed to want full-time employment because they had been working operationally.
“‘They submitted a memorandum claiming that they want to be placed full-time now because they have been working. ... They gave me seven days ultimatum.’”
The spokesperson for the city, Mr Zwele Dlamini, had to respond to media allegations about the group wanting to be employed by the city.
“‘The spokesperson of the city Mr Zwele Dlamini had to get responses from us and say there are these people and I was trying to clarify that those people were working with those people.’”
The group within the community who joined CLU police officers were not employed by the city and operated operationally, directly reporting to the Chief of Police.
“‘This group that I am talking to in this letter, CLU membership has got community leaders that are CLU members, CLU community liaising officers or unit, they are metro police officers... There was this group that joined them in doing operational work. I am talking about that group that is not employed by the city.’”
The group that joined CLUs was mainly to protect the Chief of Police, starting with the previous chief.
“‘It started with the previous chief. It is a certain group within communities who joined CLU police officers, yes. And their job mainly was to protect the chief.’”
Public protector dismissed claims made by the group.
“‘Yes, but the public protector dismissed it.’”
The former CLU members referred to are community members not employed by the City.
“the former CLU members referred to are in fact community members. They are not within the city. They are community members who then presented a memorandum which required a response”
The city has recruitment policies that require every citizen to respect and follow, and the group claiming employment was not recruited by the city.
“‘The city is having recruitment policies that every citizen must respect and follow. So, I understand this particular group, you say, was not recruited by the city.’”
Those members were no longer part of the unit when Commissioner Mkhwanazi took over command.
“these members were not part of the unit that you commandeered eventually ? No, when I took over, they were no longer there”
When Chief of Police took over with Deputy Chief Mzolo and Commissioner Mkhwanazi, the unit was disbanded.
“When Chief of Police took over with Deputy Chief Mzolo and I, then it was disbanded”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi gave instructions only to commanders and not to chiefs superintendent, superintendents, and inspectors on a daily basis.
“No, no, to the commanders. But sometimes when I want a parade to give to everyone, and I am part of that, when you address the parade. But to give on daily basis, talk to their line of command”
The Community Liaison Unit (CLU) members do not wear uniform but civilian clothes and at the time Commissioner Mkhwanazi commanded only Public Order Unit which wears uniform.
“CLU does not wear uniform. It is members of - they wear their civilian clothes. That time I was only commanding Public Order Unit. The unit that wears uniform daily basis strictly deals with crowd management”
Since joining in 2002/2003, the Metro Police have conducted operations outside the City of Ekurhuleni in various municipalities and provinces, including crime prevention and traffic law enforcement activities.
“I have touched the operation that we have been doing since the inception of the Metro Police. When I joined in 002/2003, I was operational. We have been doing operations with other cities, outside the cities, outside the City of Ekurhuleni, in different municipalities, not even in different municipalities only, outside the province, tracing wanted suspects, joining joint operations, doing crime prevention operations. Also, jointly doing traffic law enforcement”
There are grey areas without clear demarcations between the City of Ekurhuleni and City of Johannesburg police jurisdictions, causing some officers to perform duties in other jurisdictions.
“there are areas where I, as the Acting Chief of Police, I do no demarcations. Grey areas. We call them grey areas. We find officers doing law enforcement on this side, whose said, but I thought this is the City of Ekurhuleni. We find members of JMPD doing traffic law enforcement. When you got that side, you find members of Ekurhuleni. They said, no, but Chief, sometimes we execute, but because it is a grey area, no one knows”
There has been a memorandum of agreement since 2001 between City of Ekurhuleni and other municipalities regarding police cooperation without strict boundaries due to street separations.
“Commissioners, 2001, there was a memorandum of agreement between the City of Ekurhuleni and other municipalities. 2005 or 15, it is just that I was unable to get that copy. There was another memorandum of understanding between the City. The first one, I do have the copy. I have submitted an attachment. The second one, I could not get the copy, but I know that I saw that one. Then there is this one that we signed again between the City and all law enforcement agencies and all the municipalities, that we cannot be separated by one street. Crime is happening here”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi claims that instructions for law enforcement operations have been ongoing since he was a constable, including periods of suspension and illness, and these operations have been executed closely with SAPS and other municipalities in Gauteng.
“It has been happening once I was still a constable, and it is happening. Even if when I was suspended, even if when I am sick due to COVID, such operations have been taking place... I lead the unit under instruction, and we executed work very closely with SAPS, work very closely with the other municipalities.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi states that the EMPD has conducted joint operations and can conduct operations independently of JMPD and SAPS, including entering homes and confiscating stolen goods, with authorization from memoranda of understanding.
“We have done that a million times, Commissioner... Yes, and JMPD have done that a million times in our site... Yes.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi confirms the existence of a memorandum of understanding that authorizes EMPD operational actions, including joint operations with the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) for national operations and exhumations linked to apartheid era killings.
“We have got a memorandum of understanding...we are not just limited to, and some members are coming into be part of that team... there is a memorandum of agreement between the City and NPA.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi states EMPD was established in 2002 and that the agreements relating to it must have been gazetted before its formal launch.
“Yes, I recall when EMPD was established... 2002... before it was launched, it must be gazetted... I am saying it was launched 2002.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi provides details of various memoranda of understanding between EMPD and other municipalities including Johannesburg, Ekurhuleni, and City of Tshwane, outlining agreements for operational collaboration.
“It is an agreement, memorandum of understanding between Ekurhuleni Municipality and Johannesburg... The other is the same agreement between Ekurhuleni but with City of Tshwane Metropolitan Municipality.”
There is no document that allows members to work outside the jurisdiction of the City, it was made by the Chief of Police.
“there is no document that allows us to work outside the jurisdiction of the City. It was made by the Chief of Police”
The document cited indicates that services shall be delivered to both areas by the council and service providers to ensure inhabitants do not suffer disruption of services.
““Notwithstanding the date hereof, the services shall be delivered to both the area and the other area by the council and the service providers so that the inhabitants of both areas shall not suffer disruption of service.””
Clause 3 under heading 'Provisions of Services' states that the interest of the inhabitants is paramount and parties agree to cooperate to protect those interests.
““The parties agree that the interest of inhabitants of both areas in regard to the provision of service are paramount and agree to cooperate with one another to ensure that interests are fully protected.””
The Johannesburg Metropolitan Police Service (JMPD) is defined as the service provider and will operate in both areas.
“clause 1.1.2 defines the service provider as the Johannesburg Metropolitan Police Service and that clause says the service provider, being JMPD, will operate in both areas.”
It is not stated that JMPD cannot operate or execute duties without each other, but that they will provide services.
“it does not also say that they cannot operate or execute their duties without each other, but they will provide services.”
JMPD is authorized to operate outside its jurisdiction for providing services but cannot arrest suspects outside their jurisdiction.
“you cannot go and arrest suspects outside the jurisdiction”
JMPD operations benefit the City of Ekurhuleni in terms of resources and visibility, even as officers reside within Ekurhuleni but belong to Johannesburg.
“we are benefiting more than the City of Johannesburg because in terms of resources, they are more resource than us and they are more visible in the City because I think many of them, they stay, not many of them, but there is an amount, a certain amount of officers of Johannesburg that are residing within, I am not sure why, the City of Ekurhuleni”
JMPD members are authorized and supported by the City to testify in other provinces and are paid for accommodation and expenses related to arrests made outside their usual jurisdiction.
“we are authorising our members to go and testify, paid by the City for accommodation, to go and testify in KZN for the arrests that they have made there”
Courts used by JMPD for prosecutions are located in the City of Johannesburg, limiting issuance of fines to the City of Ekurhuleni due to computer system jurisdiction.
“member of JMPD can come and issue a traffic fine in the City of Ekurhuleni because the courts that we are using, they are in the City of Johannesburg...I am saying this public now...the only thing that limits us is the question of issuing of fines because our computer numbers are limited to the City of Ekurhuleni”
The document JD18(i) is the latest agreement between different municipalities, metropolitan areas, and the Gauteng Department of Community Safety dated 15 April 2025.
“the later agreement with the different municipalities, local municipalities and the three metropolitan and the Gauteng Department of Community Safety...signed by the Acting City Manager of Ekurhuleni on the 15th of April 2025”
Memorandum of Understanding Clause 7 sets out areas and manner of cooperation among parties to combat crime, including information exchange and capacity building.
“Clause 7 of that agreement . So that memorandum of understanding at Clause 7 sets out the areas and manner of cooperation”
Clause 7.2 states parties shall cooperate by exchange of information including sharing policing technology and training courses.
“Clause 7 . 2 , manner of cooperation and it says : “ The parties shall cooperate by exchange of information "”
Clause 7.2.8 requires parties to operate in each other's jurisdiction only during planned operations with a prior operational plan submission for approval.
“Parties shall operate in each other's operating area or jurisdiction only during planned operations and for duration of the operation . In all operations , an operational plan must be submitted prior to the operation within a reasonable time to the offices as provincial Commissioner for approval.”
Clause 7.2.6 states cooperation shall take place on basis of requests for assistance from executive authority or on initiative of executive authority deemed of interest to other executive authority.
“Cooperation within the framework of this MOU shall take place on the basis of request for assistance from the executive authority or on the initiative of the executive authority which deems such assistance to be of interest to other executive authority.”
Clause 7.2.9 states executive authority requesting an operation will take the lead along with SAPS.
“The executive authority requesting an operation to its area together with SAPS will take the lead to the operation .”
Cooperation must happen and police municipal departments operate in other jurisdictions only during planned operations.
“This document prescribes how that cooperation must happen and it prescribes that any of the police municipal departments will operate in a jurisdiction other than theirs only during planned operations.”
Police operate outside their jurisdiction sometimes without planned operations based on information leading to spontaneous operations to apprehend suspects.
“During and sometimes it is unplanned operations , members go . In fact , I am agreeing with you that this document talk about there are operations , spontaneous operations . There are operations where members got information now and go and execute . Sometimes it leads them to outside where the suspect , they apprehend a suspect and everything .”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi confirms he has authority to operate outside jurisdiction, including outside province and internationally for exhuming operations under different memorandum.
“Yes , I have said we even went , or we are going outside the province . International , I was talking about the exhuming . Exhuming of the previous , yes . It is a different memorandum of understanding.”
Though the 2025 MOU states one may only operate within a planned operation, Commissioner Mkhwanazi states prior and after operations occur regardless of the MOU prescriptiveness.
“Prior and after operations are going on , as I am saying . I do not want to come in , want to impress the Commission that we are complying . The next thing when we get the stats , the stats said we went in there and arrested the suspect that was running away from our jurisdiction that we were able to apprehend …”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi explains that members often travel to areas outside official jurisdiction because offences are happening there and they intervene when called by Chiefs of General or others for assistance without waiting for commands or operational plans.
“Sometimes the Chief of General call me , I have got my members there , they need your assistance because they cannot do that there . We intervene .”
Despite MOU restrictions, EMPD still operates outside its jurisdiction on a daily basis.
“So then I must understand it is still happening today , not withstanding what this MOU prescribes , that it can only be for planned operations . Nonetheless , EMPD still operate outside its jurisdiction .”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi admits EMPD operations outside jurisdiction are regular and ongoing daily occurrences.
“Chairperson , it is happening . I cannot lie .”
Section 64(f) of SAPS Act restricts powers of metropolitan police officers to their municipal borders, unless proper agreements are signed with neighbouring municipalities.
“The powers in 64 ( f ) of the SAPS Act may only be exercised within the borders of Ekurhuleni Metropolitan Council unless an appropriate agreement has been signed with a neighbouring municipality.”
Commissioner Mkhwanazi agrees that limits of jurisdiction in Section 64(f) must be stated and adhered to, especially for officers on suspension or review.
“I think it is what we need to correct . I agree we need to state and correct that . And those that , because I am still on suspension , those that are reviewing , they must – we need to engage on that and make sure that we stick on that .”
EMP officers must stop operating outside their municipal boundaries as section 64(f) prohibits this.
“you must stop operating outside your municipal boundaries because section 64(f) does not allow you to operate outside”
EMP members record their operations in their own diaries or pocket books rather than centralized official records.
“The members are having pocket books. Members are having – the units are having... They use their own diaries, their own books, they record.”
Confiscations of stolen goods during operations outside EMP jurisdiction are only recorded in members' individual diaries, not centrally.
“the only place they would record that and the fact that they have confiscated goods is in the members' own individual diary.”
Confiscated goods should be booked at the police station when necessary, but for certain items like explosives or animals alternative authorities like SPCA are involved.
“they are supposed to go to the police station or book it where it is necessary. For example, if you find explosives, you cannot take them to the police station. You call a relevant team to do that. If you find, for example, animals, it is the issue of SPCA.”
There was a problem for 10 years with the lack of OB (Occurrence Books) or pocket books for recording operations; administration was poor and reports were not timely.
“For the past 10 years, we did not have pocket books, OB books, you see. Administration was not there, you see. You only depend when you report it, you see. That is why sometimes we will get the complaint after a year or six months or seven months.”
An agreement with government printers to deliver OB pocket books has improved the situation recently; by law, each member must issue a pocket book, and the unit or precinct must have an OB where records are kept centralised and accessible.
“I am told now that... the government printers have started to deliver OB books, pocket book. I think that has improved now. Because by law, each and every member must issue the pocket book. The unit or the precinct must have an OB where your record.”
If a police officer loses their notebook, operations done by that officer may never be known or recorded.
“If there is no notebook because the police officer has lost their notebook, we will never know about that operation.”
If an EMP member operates outside their jurisdiction, they must report it on police radio and communicate the fact, though this is challenged by issues with communication radios.
“I am supposed to report it on the police radio and say we are moving out of jurisdiction. But again, it is a challenge because a lot of communication radios too...”
EMP officers do not centrally operate or control the OB books or diaries; recording is done by individual members.
“I do not operate on the OB book or diary.”
The 2025 memorandum of understanding clause 7.2.7 requires requests for assistance outside jurisdiction to be in writing, with oral emergency requests to be confirmed in writing within three days.
“Request for assistance shall be in writing. In case of emergency, request may be made orally. However, shall be confirmed by writing within three days.”
EMP members report visits from high-ranking officials such as Chief, Deputy Chief, or Director in their individual books and monthly submissions.
“they said the Chief for the Deputy Chief for the Director arrived at this time, visited us, they record on that... And when they submit their monthly what-what, they will also say that we are visited by this person.”
Requests to operate outside jurisdictional boundaries must be in writing and confirmed within three days, even if initially oral in emergencies.
“all requests from one or other to operate outside their jurisdiction... must be in writing... such requests may then, in those circumstances, be made orally, but must be confirmed within three days in writing.”
This written request rule for assistance outside jurisdiction has always been the requirement for EMP and did not change with the new memorandum of understanding.
“The requirement... has always been there... It was not changing anything... we practice it within EMP.”
A prior understanding that no operating outside jurisdiction is permitted unless there is a written agreement with the authority in the next jurisdiction was corrected.
“You may not operate outside your jurisdiction unless you have a written agreement with the authority in that next jurisdiction. That is what it tells you. So absent such an agreement, you do not have legal authority. That was my understanding but it was corrected.”
Section 64(f) powers of Ekurhuleni Metro Council may only be executed within its jurisdiction unless there is an agreement with a neighbouring municipality.
“powers in 64(f) may only be executed within the Ekurhuleni Metro Council unless an appropriate agreement has been signed with a neighbouring municipality”
Operations may be planned jointly across multiple municipalities with other law enforcement agencies, requiring coordination and agreements across jurisdictions.
“There are planned operations where there is an operational plan, where all law enforcement stakeholders execute together in all different municipalities with other law enforcement agencies.”
Without an agreement with another municipality, police may not operate in another municipality's jurisdiction.
“absent an agreement with another municipality, you may not operate in another, in the jurisdiction of another municipality”
It has been the limitation of Ekurhuleni Metro to only operate in its jurisdiction unless agreements are made.
“means it has been our limitation ... We need to correct it and make sure that we stick to what Commissioner Baloyi says”
Metropolitan Police officers do pursue suspects into other municipalities when in operational activities, even without formal requests for assistance in writing.
“if there is a request ... which request would be in writing?... We conduct operations outside Ekurhuleni if there is a request”
Metropolitan Police officers do actively pursue suspects into other municipal jurisdictions even when there has been no formal written request for assistance.
“they get information now that you must go to that. They do do that... So you do that even where there has not been a request for assistance”
Operational police members chase and arrest suspects across municipal borders even without a formal request for assistance.
“if you are chasing a person and they cross into the jurisdiction of another municipality, you cannot just let them go. You will chase them and arrest them”
It is the understanding that SAPS regulations permit Police to continue pursuit of suspects beyond their jurisdiction until arrest, even without an agreement.
“My understanding, at least, of the law is the regulations, the SAPS regulations permit you, by you I mean the Metropolitan Police Department, to continue with a pursuit that originates in your jurisdiction even if it goes beyond the borders”
Police do pursue suspects beyond their jurisdiction without prior agreement based on information and operational needs as a practical reality.
“members, they are around there doing other operations and they find something there, they may execute and arrest ... They do not see EMPD, JMPD”
Ekurhuleni Metropolitan Police Department members do arrest suspects in other municipalities (like Soweto) without a formal request by Johannesburg Metro Police Department members, by cooperating or acting based on information.
“Members, they may communicate with members of JMPD or they go to that police station ... it become easier ... but it is happening, they go and arrest”
It is established that, in practice, Ekurhuleni Metro Police members do perform law enforcement functions in other municipalities without prior formal requests or approvals, and such actions have not been legally challenged.
“For now, there is no law that has challenged us ... they have accepted those dockets ... and we must say it is lawful”
Members of EMPD operational command visit and support members in various operations to boost morale, even if not working with them for full shifts.
“Operational managers or operational commanders must visit members operationally, you see, in terms of operation, give support, work with them, even though you will not work with them for 10, 11, eight hour, but that visit boosts the morale and say our leaders or our commanders are there.”
Joint operation on 8 February involving EMPD and JMPD truck hijacking task team was conducted concerning suspects defrauding public with fake stones on social media.
“On the 8th of February, we had a joint operation with Province and JMPD, as we always do. We tasked members of truck hijacking task team unit or task team to join other teams as per request from Deputy Chief of the province to attend with them since it was affecting our area and Johannesburg and those members who were selling fake stones on social media platform, public members are being defrauded or members of public are being defrauded.”
Deputy Chief Inspector Gerald Maseko from Gauteng Traffic deployed EMPD truck hijacking task team members for the operation in Johannesburg.
“We tasked members of truck hijacking task team to join the other teams as per the request of Deputy Chief Inspector Gerald Maseko, late who was working at province.”
COMMISSIONER MKHWANAZI personally deployed EMPD officers officer McKenzi and officer Kecia Stolls for the truck hijacking operation in Johannesburg in 2023.
“From EMPD, it was Officer McKenzi, Officer Kecia. I think it was the two of them... McKenzi would be Adrian McKenzi?... Yes, yes, yes. Yes, Chair. I think there were two on that day. Yes, in that operation... I deployed them telephonically, Chair... I am saying I was with him... Yes, yes, yes.”
Officer Stolls took over as team supervisor recording detailed daily activities and keeping operational records in books, in absence of official OB books at the time.
“Then Officer Stolls took over to become a team supervisor. She was recording each and every information of the team. All documents in detail. Sometimes I would check, can I check your things? I do surprise visits to different teams. Then I would find the book that she recorded all the things. The activities of the day, the activities of the week. You will find it in her books. As I have said that we did not have OB books, but she was recording each and everything.”