Hearing day 118

The appearance of Mr Tumelo Nku was postponed due to a family bereavement and the postponement was granted by the Commission.

“BDK Attorneys have since brought a postponement application explaining the circumstances that do not permit or allow for Mr Nku to be present today ... there was a family bereavement ... The Evidence Leaders kindly considered his request for a postponement ... he will be available next week and the date arranged ... is the 18th of June.”

After harassment by General Khan, Chief Mashaba called Provincial Commander General Mawela who chaired a meeting and was advised to talk to General Mthombeni; General Mthombeni said they were busy and advised speaking to Brigadier Shibiri.

“After the harassment of General Khan, I called PC, General Mawela, and PC said to me he is chairing a meeting, I must talk to General Mthombeni. After I spoke to General Mthombeni through PC's phone, General Mthombeni said, hey, we are busy, just talk to Brigadier Shibiri and maybe she will come and assist you guys there.”

There was a misunderstanding between Booysen's team and Chief Mashaba's team about a hijacking complaint and the location of the arrest, resolved with agreement to book the driver and consignment at Booysen's location.

“We spoke to Booysen's Sector bakkie, they said guys, we are attending to a complaint that there is a hijack or you guys are bogus, can you please identify yourselves? We identified ourselves, and then they were happy. ... The driver of the truck is going to be arrested. ... The argument that is being said was that there was a misunderstanding between us and them ... that where are we going to detain, or where are we going to book the consignment ... we said we will go back to Alberton. They said, no, no, no, we cannot go to Alberton. It is happening now. You opened it in our area in Booysen's, so we will have to book them here in Booysen's.”

General Mawela was the Provincial Commander in 2021 and General Mthombeni was Major General, second in command; after Mawela retired, Mthombeni took over as Provincial Commander.

“2021, General Mawela was the PC. General Mthombeni was the Major General, second in charge of. Ja, of Mawela. After Mawela went on retirement, General Mthombeni took over. He is now the PC.”

Chief Mashaba spoke to General Mawela who gave the phone to General Mthombeni; General Mthombeni told him to talk to Brigadier Shibiri who would come and check the situation but Brigadier Shibiri never arrived on the scene.

“I spoke to General Mawela. General Mawela gave, he said, I am chairing a meeting. He gave the phone to General Mthombeni. General Mthombeni said, what is the problem? I said, we are having a problem here, there is a general here, Khan, he is harassing us. He said, what is the problem? I said, we were following on information of drugs, of a truck carrying drugs. Well, he said to me, okay, let me, we are busy, let me give you Shibiri, talk to Shibiri, on one phone, General Mawela's phone. Then I spoke to Shibiri. Shibiri said, okay, where are you guys? I said, we are in Aeroton. Then they said, General Mthombeni said Shibiri will come there and check what is happening and assist where possible. I did not see him. He did not come.”

Chief Mashaba was Acting DD in 2021, second in charge of Sedibeng district, overseeing three or four offices including Ratanda, Heidelberg Weighbridge, Heidelberg region, and Vereeniging region, responsible for monitoring performance, attending complaints and holding meetings.

“in 2021 , the Acting DD that I was , I was in charge of , I was second in charge of the district , Sedibeng , heading three , four , yes , four offices . That is Ratanda , that is Heidelberg Weighbridge . That was , that is Heidelberg region . Vereeniging region . Meaning the four , the three , the four were reporting to me , I would go and inspect the offices . I will go and attend meetings in the district with the police , the district office in Vereeniging and come back and brief the Heads of , of the offices that is Vereeniging , Heidelberg , Heidelberg Weighbridge and , well , Ratanda is just a satellite small station because it is , it is small . So our duty , my duty is to monitor the performance of the offices , the three offices , to attend to complaints of the members , to hold meetings with the offices and address challenges there of .”

There is a perception or confusion that a Traffic Officer cannot do law enforcement, but Chief Mashaba states they have the authority and power to fight crime as peace officers under the Criminal Procedure Act 51 of 1977.

“a Traffic Officer is a Policeman specializing in roads ... what gives us the authority and power, it is the Act now as law enforcement officials and peace officers that we also have a mandate to fight crime . So I think that what gives us the power and the authority to, from time to time, work with the Police in fighting crime .”

Chief Mashaba confirms Traffic Officers have blanket power to do any and all things members of SAPS are empowered to do, except investigating dockets, and in crime in progress situations they support SAPS which takes lead.

“Yes, I can do, except investigating a docket. That, and I do not have the power over, but other than that, as a law enforcement official, it does not mean when I see, for example, a crime in progress, let us say rape, I cant turn a blind eye. I can not turn a blind eye, and I can not just turn a blind eye because I do not work with rapes. It is not my line of duty, but it is crime in progress. I can not just turn a blind eye. But when I am with the Police, jointly working, the protocol dictates that the Police will take the lead. I will be playing the supporting role.”

Traffic officers are empowered by Criminal Procedure Act 33 4, Act 51 of 1977 to fight crime as peace officers, which gives them power and authority.

“We are empowered by Criminal Procedure Act 33 4, Act 51 of 1977 . It gives us the power now as the peace officers to fight crime .”

Chief Mashaba clarifies as a Traffic Officer he does not investigate serious crimes such as murder or armed robbery on his own accord, but would report such crimes to SAPS if brought to his attention.

“No. Hence I am saying … Specifically, not that I can out of my own way go investigate a murder, but if it is brought to my … I would not do that . I will either , either I will report to SAPS .”

Chief Mashaba says as a law enforcement official, he must report to the relevant authority when intervening outside his immediate jurisdiction and in related crimes off the road.

“I must do something as a law enforcement official. Step number one, I will have to report, make the relevant authority aware”

Chief Mashaba says he can enforce law on the road within Gauteng as a Traffic Officer, without needing permission from SAPS, but for other crimes he must seek SAPS assistance.

“Well, on the road, I do not need any permission from SAPS on the road because that is where my crime scenes are. As a Traffic Officer. But on other related, no related, on other crimes committed, I will have to seek assistance that SAPS”

Chief Mashaba states his jurisdiction as Gauteng province covering all Metros and Local Municipalities, not limited to the Sedibeng district where he is based.

“My jurisdiction is Gauteng. I am not like your JMPD that works within their boundary. I am not like Tshwane. I am not like Ekurhuleni. I am not like Emfuleni. I cover all the Metros and the Local Municipalities. That is my jurisdiction.”

Chief Mashaba states SAPS officers chosen to assist in operations depend on the information he gets; he does not just choose any officer arbitrarily.

“Depending on the information that I get, I do not just choose. I do not just choose.”

Chief Mashaba confirms he would invite SAPS when conducting searches or raids inside a commission's premises as he would not act alone.

“I would invite SAPS. I would invite SAPS. No necessarily that I cannot, but I am saying, well, to limit a lot of issues, a lot of questions, it is simply, it is quite simple to just invite SAPS because they are the ones that quickly can apply for search warrants and stuff like that.”

In 2020, Chief Mashaba was appointed Acting Deputy Director for Sedibeng District, Southern Corridor, a district role not provincial.

“I was appointed as an Acting Deputy Director, Sedibeng District, Southern Corridor. That is very specific. You are not in a provincial role then.”

Chief Mashaba explains SAPS officers have specific operational areas and he must relate information to the relevant SAPS member before acting in that area.

“I need to relate that to a Diepkloof member because that is his area of operation.”

Chief Mashaba was promoted to Chief Provincial Inspector at the Premier's office in 2013 but was politically removed and suspended, and then reinstated and transferred to Vereeniging regional office as Head of the service point region.

“I was promoted to a Chief Provincial Inspector post... You then say you were politically removed and the following day the matter was not placed on the roll. I was then suspended and my reinstatement, I was transferred to Vereeniging regional office as the Head of the service point region.”

Chief Mashaba accepts he was only Acting Deputy Director for Sedibeng District but says he occupies that position in the provincial office in the district of Sedibeng.

“I am occupying that position in the provincial office, in the district of Sedibeng. I am placed in Sedibeng.”

Chief Mashaba acknowledges Sedibeng District is not the whole Gauteng province but just a municipality, while his jurisdiction is Gauteng.

“Yes, it is not a province. It is a municipality.”

Chief Mashaba's daily Deputy Director responsibilities included visiting three offices and addressing complaints, challenges, resource and conflict management, and non-performance issues.

“My role was to address complaints, address challenges, be it resources, be it conflicts among the members, be it non-performance from managers. Those were my responsibilities there.”

Chief Mashaba admits he did not report to his Director Pompithe on 9 July 2021, contrary to expectations.

“On that day of ? The 9th of July 2021. No, I did not report.”

Chief Mashaba claims the information he received about the matter involved senior law enforcement officials and was sensitive, requiring caution.

“I want to emphasize that the information is sensitive information. I need to be careful because it involves senior law enforcement officials.”

Chief Mashaba considered reporting to Director Pompi as a compromise of the operation based on information from a civilian.

“So you considered reporting to Director Pompi as being an issue that will compromise this operation”

Chief Mashaba was instructed by Mr Nku to be careful about who she informed regarding an operation because senior law enforcement officials were involved.

“you did not report to your Director because you said you were told by Mr Nku that you must be careful as to who you inform of this operation because there are senior law enforcement officials involved”

Chief Mashaba acknowledged having a good relationship with the civilian source and also with her boss.

“I also have a good relationship with my boss also, correct”

Chief Mashaba stated Mr Nku does not know Director Pompi.

“Mr Nku does not know Mr Pompi”

Chief Mashaba did not inform her boss about the operation because the information involved sensitive issues.

“I am not taking this information light because it talks about sensitive issues there”

Chief Mashaba determined not to inform Director Pompi because he is a senior law enforcement official and such reporting might risk the success of the operation.

“It is because my boss is one of the senior law enforcement officials... so when he says to me, be careful who you involve, I know running a risk of reporting such information to bosses, sometimes you get to not become successful because the boss might have an interest whatever information you got”

Mr Nku's warning to Chief Mashaba about involving senior law enforcement officials referred generally to SAPS, metros and others, without specifying which agencies.

“Nku was trying to say, I understood it, because he is not a law enforcement official. I knew that he means it can be SAPS, it can be metros, and others. When he did not say do not be careful not to involve Samuel Mashaba... he did not specifically say SAPS”

Chief Mashaba kept a diary recording her operational activities but the diary was stolen from her car.

“Yes, I have got my diary, Chair...My car, when I was locked up that day, I had a lot of things in my car...the diary was also in there...it was stolen”

Chief Mashaba preferred to involve only herself from Gauteng Traffic Police for this operation because the information came directly to her.

“For the purposes of this operation, you preferred that only you from Gauteng Traffic must be involved”

Mr Nkuh in his statement was prepared to involve a high-ranking official to run the operation, but in conversation warned against involving high-ranking officials, presenting a contradiction.

“Mr Nkuh himself, in his statement, was prepared to deal with a high-ranking official. He was prepared to share this information with a high-ranking official... yet you tell us that he warned you not to involve high-ranking officials.”

Chief Mashaba heard that Mr Nkuh warned not to involve high-ranking officials and decided to deal with the matter on his own, not informing his superiors.

“...he warns you not to involve a high-ranking official... you are going to deal with it on your own...”

Chief Mashaba was told there is a truck carrying drugs but was not informed of the exact size of the consignment or specifics of the drugs.

“He did not tell me exactly how big the consignment is... there is this truck.”

Chief Mashaba knew of the possible drug trafficking as early as Thursday night.

“Correct.”

Chief Mashaba was not told the identity of the high-ranking official Mr Nkuh initially wanted to involve.

“No, he did not.”

Chief Mashaba took seriously the caution from Mr Nkuh about being careful who to share information with.

“I did not take it light, yes.”

Chief Mashaba was informed on Friday morning that the truck was at the Yellow Jersey truck stop in Johannesburg.

“Yes, in the morning, Friday. ... Yellow Jersey truck stop.”

Chief Mashaba said he could not carry out the operation alone and needed assistance (manpower).

“Mashaba alone cannot do that. I will need assistance from other people. That is the manpower I mean.”

Chief Mashaba developed the plan to activate manpower only after Mr Nku confirmed the truck carrying drugs was on its way.

“This plan you only come up with after he confirms to you that there is, in fact, the truck does have drugs and it is on its way.”

Chief Mashaba asked Mr Nku to confirm that the information about the truck carrying drugs was correct before activating manpower to deal with it.

“Please make sure it is positive... I then asked Mr Nku to first confirm if the information was positive before I could act on it.”

Chief Mashaba only knew that there was a truck coming from Durban carrying drugs and was asked for assistance, without any additional information about the drugs or consignment size.

“He said to me, there is this truck coming from Durban, it is carrying drugs, can you assist?”

Chief Mashaba was not told the location of the truck the night before the call.

“No, he did not tell me.”

Chief Mashaba confirmed the truck was already at the Yellow Jersey truck stop when Mr Nku called him on Friday morning.

“Yes.”

Chief Mashaba acted on the information provided by Mr Nku without independently verifying details of the drugs or consignment size.

“I do not know. Remember, I am only acting on the information he gives.”

Chief Mashaba asserts that as a law enforcement officer he knows how to verify information without needing the details told to him and that when he said he was following information about a truck from Durban to Johannesburg, it means the information is positive and established according to his understanding.

“the answer that I am giving is that if you receive an information as a cop, as a law enforcement official, I know how to verify without you telling me the details of that information. If you say to me, I am following on information from Durban to Johannesburg ... it means it is positive.”

Chairperson explains that one would only be satisfied with the statement that a truck is now in Johannesburg if they already knew what the truck contained, implying that the information must be confirmed and specific facts established.

“being prepared to act on a statement that merely says the truck is now in Johannesburg, would make sense only if you already knew what the contents of the truck were.”

Advocate Segeels-Ncube challenges Chief Mashaba that his statement mentioned the truck was 'allegedly suspected' to have drugs, implying it was an allegation or suspicion rather than confirmed fact, and questions the factual certainty of the information.

“In your statement you say, which was allegedly suspected to have drugs in its cargo... It was an allegation and earlier on you dealt with it on the basis of a suspicion.”

Chief Mashaba says he was satisfied that the truck was carrying drugs from Durban and this knowledge was the reason why he acted on the information that the truck was already in Johannesburg.

“Yes, I was satisfied because at the back of my mind, the information I got is the truck will be carrying drugs from Durban.”

Chief Mashaba confirms that Mr Nkukne knew as a fact that the truck was carrying drugs, and this information was given to him before Thursday night.

“Mr Nkukne knew because he is the one who has got details of that truck ... The truck is carrying drugs ... Yes, I knew the Thursday.”

Chief Mashaba admits that he did not do any verification of the information from his side or from a civilian side and that verification would only be to physically open and check the truck when it is in Johannesburg.

“No verification done by your, on your side?... The verification would be, I need to come and okay with the truck, I need to come and open. That is the only verification.”

Chief Mashaba states that Crime Intelligence was not involved on Thursday night because the operation was already in progress Friday morning and he did not have the luxury of time to wait for confirmation.

“Crime Intelligence, this thing already it is Thursday. On Friday it was in progress already. I do not think I had that luxury of time.”

Chief Mashaba admits he waited and slept before activating his plan the next morning after being told Thursday night about the truck carrying drugs.

“I slept and waited for his call then next morning.”

Chief Mashaba claims he did not have time to involve Crime Intelligence earlier because the operation was already in progress by Friday morning.

“I am saying to you I did not have time and there was no time because how do I have time where this thing is in progress?”

Chief Mashaba states he would have known if the truck carrying drugs had passed the Heidelberg Weighbridge because it would have been overloaded and would not be allowed to pass unnoticed; he also concedes he is not personally responsible for following or ensuring compliance on the roads.

“If it would have passed the weighbridge, I would have known because it was going to be overloaded, it was not going to pass...”

Advocate Segeels-Ncube challenges Chief Mashaba that since he is in charge of the Heidelberg Weighbridge and was given details of the truck including license plate and driver, he had the opportunity and resources to stop, inspect, and verify the truck but missed this opportunity allegedly intentionally to allow the truck to pass out of his district.

“You are in charge of the Heidelberg Weighbridge ... You could have asked your members to stop that vehicle at the weighbridge... but you missed that opportunity intentionally so that it can go to Johannesburg which is out of your district. Why would you do that?”

Adv Segels-Ncube alleges that vehicles such as trucks coming from Durban to Johannesburg must stop at the Heidelberg Weighbridge unless authorized to pass.

“I want to know if the truck is coming from Durban to Johannesburg and has to pass the Heidelberg Weighbridge, why do you not activate your official team and tell them if you see a truck coming to that weighbridge because it must. It is a truck and buses must. I know this because I used to be a hostess on the bus. Those trucks must stop on the weighbridge. Or they can pass if authorization is given from somebody for them to pass, which happens, and you could have done that.”

Chief Mashaba states he received information about the truck on Thursday but the detailed information about the truck was only given to him on Friday morning.

“The details of the truck, I got it on Friday morning.”

Chief Mashaba denies receiving detailed information about the truck on Thursday and clarifies he only got information on Thursday, not the details, which he received only on Friday.

“I did not say I had the details of the truck on Thursday. I said I got the information on Thursday. That is what I remember saying.”

Chief Mashaba would have reported murders or armed robberies to the relevant SAPS police station where the crime occurred, e.g. Alberton.

“I will report to a police station that is where that murder has occurred. Let us say if it happened in Alberton, I will report to Alberton.”

Regarding narcotics suspected to be transported from Durban to Gauteng, Chief Mashaba states jurisdiction and reporting would be to Alberton police station within SAPS.

“Let us start with its jurisdiction of that narcotics, where is it. ... Albertont. Because it is in Yellow Jersey. Yellow Jersey is policed by Alberton.”

ADV Segels-Ncube accuses Chief Mashaba of not asking for the detailed information to activate the team to monitor the truck at the Heidelberg Weighbridge on Thursday night, even though he could have.

“You could have asked him for the details of the truck to get more information from him, correct? You could have. ... If you had gotten the information which you say you did not have, the details of the truck, the license plate, if you had elicited that information from him the Thursday night, you could have activated the team at the Heidelberg Weighbridge to be on the lookout for that truck, correct?”

Chief Mashaba admits he could have asked for truck details on Thursday night but says he did not think it appropriate to instruct his team based on sensitive info.

“I could have. ... No, you do not just say that. If I am saying, look out, be on the lookout for this truck, what is it doing, how about this truck? Look out for? ... Hence I am saying, it depends. I was not going to do it.”

Chief Mashaba states he treats information about a truck suspected of carrying drugs as sensitive and does not share such information with his team to avoid complications.

“Well, yes. ... It depend, because hence I am saying, I am treating it, it is sensitive information. I will not just say, look out for the truck, as if I am interested in, or doing business with such things. Hence I am saying, it depends.”

Chief Mashaba claims the information about the truck did not fall under their mandate, so he did not tell his team to look out and did not report to SAPS, requesting manpower instead.

“Remember the information I got, it is, it does not fall under our mandate. So if I would have said that to them, I am saying that to them to do what? To call me, and then? I was not going to do it, because I know it is going to give us difficulty in dealing with it. It still needed SAPS. ... I did not report. I requested manpower in the morning.”

Chief Mashaba did not report the operation involving narcotics to SAPS as required by prescripts because he was cautioned by Mr Nku, a civilian.

“I did not report”

Chief Mashaba did not report a narcotics operation to SAPS because he was cautioned by Mr Nku, a civilian, and this decision led to him breaching existing prescripts.

“you are saying Mr Nku said do not comply with your prescripts .. you do not comply with your prescripts”

Chief Mashaba acknowledges he did not comply with prescripts by not reporting the narcotics operation, but disputes that this means he 'bowed' to Mr Nku.

“I did not bow to the civilian ... you get information and still use your own discretion”

Chief Mashaba accepts that if his discretionary action is contrary to prescripts, it would be unlawful.

“If it finds me to be in the wrong, it is unlawful”

Chief Mashaba says he is entitled to use his discretion even if it means acting contrary to prescripts, so long as the decision can be substantiated.

“I apply my mind ... as long as the decision you are taking, you will be able to substantiate”

Chief Mashaba maintains he did not choose to breach prescripts but says if found wrong, his actions were unlawful.

“I do not choose ... if I will be found to be in the wrong, yes, I would agree”

Chief Mashaba admits the prescripts require reporting narcotics-related operations to SAPS, which he did not do in this case.

“you have to report something like this to SAPS and we know that you did not report”

Chief Mashaba states the Traffic Police mandate does not cover narcotics-related matters and that is why he did not involve the weighbridge team directly.

“Are we talking drugs? And it is not our specialty, that is what I mean”

Chief Mashaba preferred to give the information about suspected narcotics to SAPS to avoid operational problems, rather than involving his own team.

“this thing is going to give us problems ... let me just give it to SAPS. That is where it belongs”

Chief Mashaba did not instruct or mandate his team at the weighbridge to pull over the vehicle linked to an investigation, choosing instead to verify information first and act accordingly.

“why do you got to Yellow Jersey Logistics without the SAPS member ... but you cannot mobilize your official team at the weighbridge to look out for this vehicle and pull it over? ... Because the information came to me. I wanted to verify. If I saw it fit, nothing would have stopped me to call my team.”

Chief Mashaba says he did not have SAPS members with him during the operation but called SAPS afterward.

“I did not have a SAPS member with me. I called the SAPS member after”

Chief Mashaba went to Yellow Jersey Logistics with a civilian and without any official police team or backup.

“you say when you went to the Yellow Jersey Logistics, you did not go with the police officer. Yes. So you went there with the civilian, or you met the civilian there. You met Mr Nkute here, correct ?”

Chief Mashaba states he was refused entry to Yellow Jersey property initially but did enter the property with Mr Magane.

“I did not try to enter and I was refused. ... I did not enter. I entered with Magane.”

Chief Mashaba went to Yellow Jersey premises with Mr Nkute and Mr Magane, got on the road behind the truck, and followed it to Scania premises where they conducted an operation involving opening a container that led to drugs being found and moved onto a van.

“you, Magane, went to Yellow Jersey property ... You enter that property, right? ... You then left the property following the truck. The truck left for Scania. You were behind the truck ... You all went to the property, I am right so far... You instruct the Scania people to open the container, the drugs fell out, and they were put onto a van.”

Chief Mashaba asserts as a Traffic Officer he is permitted by law to enter property and conduct operations except investigate docket, and he needed SAPS involvement for expertise but could have acted alone.

“He said as a Traffic Officer, it is something else. As permitted by law, under 334, nothing stops me. He said the only thing that I cannot do is to investigate the docket. Other than that, I can ... I need SAPS, but ... nothing would have stopped me from doing that if I was following or did exactly what I did from Yellow Jersey.”

Chief Mashaba confirms he could have conducted the operation at Scania without involving SAPS but still needed SAPS presence for ease and expertise.

“I could have done that. ... To make things easy, you quickly involve people you know life will be easy because that is the area of expertise, so that is SAPS.”

Adv Baloyi asserts that Chief Mashaba did not need to involve SAPS to conduct the operation at Scania and the operation was legally within his powers as a Traffic Officer.

“there is nothing that obliged you to bring the SAPS on to this operation ... it is an operation that, in terms of the law, your prescripts, your rules, your protocols, you are entitled to do exactly what you did without the SAPS.”

Chief Mashaba clarified that he socializes with Mr Nku but they are not in business together.

“socially it means I will go out with him, maybe go drink or maybe go party or something. I am not in business with him, and I do not do that with him. It is just a contact, a person that I know”

Chief Mashaba knows Mr Nku through a forum of businessmen against crime in 2019.

“I know him through a friend in 2019 as a businessman in a forum of business against crime”

Chief Mashaba's relationship with Mr Nku was a social contact but not a friendship or business relationship.

“Not friends. A contact, I will say”

Chief Mashaba once received and acted upon information from Mr Nku regarding fake diesel in Vereeniging, involving the police.

“he once gave me the information of diesel, this fake diesel in Vereeniging and we did it with the police”

Chief Mashaba considered Mr Nku as an informant because he volunteered information.

“I would say an informant because he was doing it voluntarily”

Chief Mashaba said Mr Nku provided other information outside of his jurisdiction which he did not act on.

“other informations were out of the province, out of my jurisdiction. I could not assist”

Chief Mashaba does not know if Mr Nku was reporting to a boss or had a boss.

“No, I do not know”

Chief Mashaba never was informed by Mr Nku that he had a boss whom he did certain work for.

“No”

Chief Mashaba was unaware of the type of business Mr Nku was conducting and whether Mr Nku had a boss.

“I was not aware”

Chief Mashaba confirmed that the number saved as 'Doggy Hawks' in WhatsApp messages linked to Mr Nku is his own number.

“I still use the number, yes... That is my number”

Chief Mashaba does not believe 'my boys' referred to members of his team.

“I do not think so”

In WhatsApp chats dated February 18, 2019 between Mr Nku and Chief Mashaba, Chief Mashaba used the phrase 'I sent my boys' in a message, but he cannot recall who the 'boys' refer to.

“this is in February, the 18th of February 2019 ... you say thumbs up and you say, I sent my boys ... Like I am saying, I would not remember”

Chief Mashaba acknowledged the phrase 'I will bring back your dignity to your bosses' in a WhatsApp message but does not know who the bosses are or recall relevant details.

“I do not know him as having any boss and I do not even know and I do not remember what we were talking about here”

Chief Mashaba stated he does not know anything about Mr Nku's life other than socializing, does not know where he stays even today.

“I know nothing about his life. I do not even know where he stays. Even today, I do not even know”

Chief Mashaba could not recall any further meaningful information about his relationship or activity with Mr Nku from 2019.

“I do not know, I am not, I cannot recall”

Advocate Baloyi SC argues logically that Chief Mashaba must have known something about his bosses given the content of messages attributed to him.

“I am saying you must. It seems logical.”

Chief Mashaba states there is a possibility that the content of his cell phone chats may have been tampered with.

“There is that possibility.”

Chief Mashaba accepts that if the WhatsApp message to Mr Nku is accurate and from him, he must have known something about his bosses.

“Let me accept until this is brought to me exactly where was this conversation going.”

Chats reveal communication between Mr Nku and a person identified as Iby Boss regarding inquiries and information sharing.

“You see at page 110 he is receiving it from you ... And then at 141 it shows that he is sending it.”

Chats mention a "drug and money laundering enquiry" that is considered serious and not approached empty handed.

“Drugs and money laundering enquiry opened, so ball is in their court. We are not going to approach Big Boss empty handed. It is a serious one.”

Chief Mashaba admits he does not know who Iby Boss is and only refers to him as boss because Mr Nku tells him so.

“If Nku says to me, I talk to the boss, that necessarily mean I know that person he is talking to. I will only refer him as the boss because Nku says to me, that is my boss. I do not even know this I by Boss. I do not know.”

Chief Mashaba did not know that Mr Nku had bosses but referred to 'boss' because Mr Nku said so, though he did not know who the boss is.

“I did not know who the boss is. Like I am saying, when he talks to me and say the boss, that is the boss said, I will also refer that person as the boss. That does not necessarily mean I know the person.”

Advocate Baloyi SC asserts Chief Mashaba knew that Mr Nku was dealing with someone he refers to as boss, though he may not know the identity of the boss.

“You knew that he is dealing with someone that he refers to as boss and you also, you just continued to use the same descriptor.”

Advocate Segeels-Ncube asks Chief Mashaba if he recalls what the drug and money laundering inquiry was about; he replies he does not recall.

“Do you recall what the drug and money laundering enquiry was about? I do not recall.”

There was communication about opening an enquiry related to drugs and money laundering, and the enquiry must not come to the 'big boss' empty-handed.

“Either they take it or leave it, enquiry will be there but you cannot go to big boss empty-handed. We need to open their mouths with something.”

Chief Mashaba states he was aware that the drugs and money laundering enquiry was opened, and that he would have asked someone in SAPS to open such an enquiry.

“Yes, according to this, yes, I would have known. Maybe the person that I referred to opened that enquiry and confirmed to me that the enquiry is opened. Ask them to open an enquiry.”

Chief Mashaba admits that he himself and someone else would have approached the 'big boss' regarding the enquiry because it involves drugs and money laundering, which he said he could not deal with and had to refer within SAPS.

“When I say we, it means yes, I am involving myself. Because he is talking drugs and money, I know I would have done nothing about it. I would have referred it to somebody else and that will be in SAPS and nowhere else. Because he is talking about big boss.”

Chief Mashaba denies gaining any financial benefit from communications with Mr Nku promising opportunities for a formidible financial future.

“I do not, because I know there is nothing that came to me as a benefit financially this time. I do not know of that. I would not know.”

There have been WhatsApp messages and bank account exchanges indicating money transactions between Chief Mashaba and Mr Nku, implying a financial relationship.

“...there are WhatsApp messages that involve money conversations between you and Mr Nku and bank account exchanges and confirmations of proof of payment.”

Chief Mashaba indicates reluctance or inability to recall details about the financial conversations with Mr Nku, despite prompts from counsel.

“I cannot recall. Exactly. I can not. I do not want to. You will not. You just will not recall for us. You do not want to.”

Chief Mashaba acknowledges knowing about certain conversations about opportunities guaranteeing a formidible financial future connected to Mr Nku, but claims he cannot recall details now.

“At that time, it means I knew, but I cannot recall.”

Chief Mashaba considers Mr Nku a contact but denies social or business ties with him and denies knowing what business Mr Nku does.

“He is a contact , yes , but I know I do not go out with him and I do not do business with him because I do not know what kind of business he does .”

Chief Mashaba received money from Mr Nku, possibly as a friend or contact.

“Well , for money , yes . He gave me , he gave you money .”

Chief Mashaba claims he has not spoken to Gauza for more than five years and never met or talked to him about operations involving Giyani, despite WhatsApp messages suggesting otherwise.

“I have never met , I have never spoken to Gauza. I am sure it is more than five years not talking to Gauza.”

Chief Mashaba claims he might be lying about the truthfulness of WhatsApp messages exchanged with Mr Nku, acknowledging that not all WhatsApp communication is necessarily true.

“I would have maybe , I would have maybe talking to Nku here , but because I do not even recall , I might maybe be lying here because you know for a fact not everything in the WhatsApp or in the message you say or you type is correct or true .”

Chief Mashaba met with Gauza once at his house; did not meet with Mvinjelwa; met with Mosa alone; and discussed different issues with Gauza and Twala separately.

“I met with Gauza at his house alone . I met with Mosa alone , not with Gauza . This Mvinjelwa I do not remember .”

Chief Mashaba wanted Gauza to assist or meet with somebody regarding a case that Gauza was uniquely capable to assist with.

“I wanted him to assist , I wanted him to assist or I wanted him to meet with somebody regarding the case that that person said Gauza is the only one that can assist .”

Chief Mashaba says he met with Mashego to assist someone with a case, preferring not to be a middleman in the matter.

“What I remember exactly with Mashego was that there is a case that he needed to assist somebody with. That is why I went to him.”

Chief Mashaba admits he sent a WhatsApp message that could be interpreted as meeting multiple people at once, though he claims he met them on different days.

“Hence I am saying I do not recall meeting the three of them at once.”

Chief Mashaba confirms Mosa Twala is a member of the South African Police Service (SAPS).

“When you say you met, maybe let me first ask, Mosa Twala, is that a member of the SAPS? Yes.”

Chief Mashaba does not recall or remember Mvinjelwa50.

“Mvinjelwa, I do not remember.”

Chief Mashaba sent a WhatsApp message 28 March 2019 stating "We winning Tumza dignity is going" referring to a contested dignity issue.

“On the 28th of March 019 at 3:14 p.m. you say: “We winning Tumza dignity is going.””

Chief Mashaba clarifies that "dignity is going" means the dignity has not yet been restored, indicating a lack of success.

“I said I will bring it back, now it is going. It means nothing happened.”

Chief Mashaba says he provided his business bank account details via WhatsApp to someone, with a message not to feel annoyed or taken advantage of.

“Do not feel annoyed and I am not taking advantage. And then you send him a bank account details. Whose bank account details are those? It is my business bank account.”

Chief Mashaba admits the business bank account he gave has been closed long ago but was active at that time.

“Yes, closed. I do not even remember, this time it was open, but it is my business.”

Chief Mashaba says money was deposited into his business bank account by someone, possibly as a boost or borrowing, but does not recall details.

“Maybe he would have, maybe he give it a boosting or borrowing me, I do not know.”

Chief Mashaba acknowledges that money was deposited into his account, indicates thanks and calls it a lifesaver but cannot recall details about the transaction or why he was saved.

“Thank you very Tumza. It has reflected. Lifesaver my brother. So he saved your life. How often did he save your life by paying you? Maybe he saved it this time. I do not remember what we were talking about or what transaction we were talking about here.”

Adv Baloyi states that WhatsApp messages indicate Chief Mashaba received money from Nku to distribute to others, under pressure to provide proof of payment.

“Can I say Chief, this sequence of WhatsApp messages speak to your receiving money from Nku to pay other people, to distribute to other people? That is what this speaks of, and that is the important thing...it was to pass it on or you were going to pay other people that required proof of payment that were putting you under pressure.”

Chief Mashaba admits that the payments in the WhatsApp messages were not for boosting him personally, but rather to pay other people he and Mr. Nku were involved with.

“this series of WhatsApp messages where you say they are putting me under pressure, send me proofs so I can show them, what it demonstrates is that whatever transaction or dealing you and Mr Nku were doing, these WhatsApp messages was about payment to your accounts so that you can pay other people known to you and Mr Nku”

The WhatsApp messages were found only on Mr. Nku's phone, not Chief Mashaba's phone.

“this does not come from your phone. It comes from Mr Nku's phone. So he is not like you, clearly. It was found in his phone.”

Chief Mashaba states that if he was doing something wrong, he would not have left a paper trail as seen in the WhatsApp messages on Mr. Nku's phone.

“if really I was doing something wrong, I would not leave paper trail like this”

Chief Mashaba acknowledges he gave Mr. Nku his account number and that the money he was receiving was to be distributed to other people as well.

“Established fact, which you admit, you did give him your account number. And I understood you to accept that you are saying to him, you are being put under pressure and saying they want proof of payment...it demonstrates or at least suggests that the money you were receiving was to be distributed to other people as well.”

Chief Mashaba denies knowing exactly what he and Mr. Nku were doing, admits they were communicating constantly, but he does not remember any dodgy deals with Mr. Nku.

“most of the time when he calls or called, he would need favours... I cannot remember exactly what we were talking about or what deals we were talking about... because I do not remember any dodgy deals with him”

Chief Mashaba confirms that his relationship with Mr. Nku in 2019 was a side hustle, including receiving unofficial financial assistance from Mr. Nku.

“Nku would be very much helpful to me... financially, yes. Not official... maybe I am renovating at home, I would cry to him and say can you please assist?”

Chief Mashaba confirms Mr Nku was more than a source because he also assisted financially.

“he was not just a source . He was something more , because he also assisted you financially .”

Chief Mashaba admits receiving financial assistance from Mr Nku but denies any quid pro quo arrangement where he did something in return.

“No thing . Depending on what assistance will he be asking from me , I will then assist if I can .”

Chief Mashaba explains Mr Nku often does not respond to phone calls, possibly due to travel or dislike of phone, leading to perception of being ignored.

“it is somebody who does not like the phone , or somebody that travels a lot . You might call him and call him and not get ... maybe he was out of the country . He is like that .”

Adv Baloyi accuses Chief Mashaba of working on something with Mr Nku, not merely receiving money, and implies this relationship was not disclosed as a friendship in earlier statements and affidavits.

“This is about something you are both working on . And then you say to him , if there is a stop to this work together , let me know so that I can stop and then not call you . So you were working with Mr Nku in 2019 April on something .”

Adv Baloyi SC raises concern that Chief Mashaba accepted money from a person involved in drug deliveries and drug transportation arranged outside law enforcement channels, questioning how this is not problematic for a police officer.

“How should we look at a law enforcement officer like yourself being funded by a person like that ? How is that not problematic”

Chief Mashaba admits regularly seeking financial assistance from Mr Nku, describing messages and calls showing reliance on him for money.

“you were looking for money from him ? Yes .”

Chief Mashaba denies lying under oath about Mr Nku's role as a source or informant, stating the relationship was based on information sharing not friendship or financial support.

“I was not lying , Commissioners . Maybe it is because we are talking about the Aeroton matter ... The role he played is he gave me information . I was not lying under oath .”

Adv K Humalo SC argues that if Chief Mashaba had described Mr Nku as a friend who often gave him money, the handling of investigations by IPID and other institutions would have been different.

“But do you accept that how IPID and other institutions would have dealt with the information would have been different if you said this is a friend of mine who often gives me money ... ?”

Adv K Humalo SC insists that Chief Mashaba was funded by Mr Nku, which is a problematic matter as Mr Nku is involved in drug-related activities.

“That is a fact . He was funding you .”

The complainant gave false information to IPID which was withheld by the police and characterized as causing division within SAPS and Crime Intelligence.

“you giving information that is clearly false to IPID because you were the main complainant in the IPID complaint ... And that is material information that you withheld from IPID, from the police”

Chief Mashaba was not truthful in affidavits about the relationship with Mr Nku and withheld material information about their relationship from the commission.

“you were not truthful in all those affidavits when you described Mr Nku as a source, because he was more than a source to you”

Chief Mashaba was angry about a genuine operation in 2021 and disputes that the complaint caused division within SAPS and Crime Intelligence.

“I was very angry about what happened on 021. I still am because that was a genuine operation.”

Chief Mashaba admitted that Mr Nku is more than a brother in their relationship.

“he is more than a brother even now”

Chief Mashaba was not truthful about the true nature of his relationship with Mr Nku because he feared it looked like a police officer being funded by somebody, which is why he withheld the material information.

“You were not truthful in not disclosing the nature of what you say now in this last engagement... You say, I could not disclose then because then what would it look like, that a police officer is being funded by somebody?”

Chief Mashaba acknowledged that the relationship with Mr Nku involved unofficial funding but denied lying about it in his official capacity.

“If it is taken as a funding, it is unofficial. But on my official capacity and basis, I do not think I was lying.”

Chief Mashaba did not recall the amounts received from Mr Nku into the business bank account but admitted the relationship started in 2019.

“Honestly, I do not recall. ... Your relationship with Mr Nku started in 2019.”

Chief Mashaba received R20,000 from Mr Nku around March 2019 and felt comfortable enough to send business details by then.

“In March you already feel comfortable enough to ask him for money and send him your business details ... He gave you R20,000 in March and your relationship started earlier that year.”

Chief Mashaba did not do anything for Mr Nku to get that R20,000.

“And you did nothing for him to get that R20,000? No, nothing.”

Chief Mashaba did not recall other payments from Mr Nku in May 2019 or related communications or meetings discussing these payments.

“Do you recall that? No, no, no. ... I do not recall, Commissioner. No, I do not know.”

Chief Mashaba claimed to have forgotten details from 2019 about his relationship with Mr Nku and denied lying under oath about that relationship.

“In 2019 honestly, honestly, I do not remember what we were busy with... I would not say I have seen it, that I am lying under oath... I gave a wrong picture about my relationship with Nku because, truth be told, something of 2019 I forgot about it.”

The Chairperson suggested Chief Mashaba is feigning forgetfulness about the relationship details.

“For you to say that you have forgotten everything about this, to me it looks like you are feigning this forgetfulness.”

Chief Mashaba asserts that in 2019 the only thing he was busy with was renovating, not involving money, implying the texts discussed were not about financial matters.

“That is the only thing that I remember I was busy with in 2019 .”

Chief Mashaba admits not recalling specifics about what unfinished business he had with Mr. Nku and states he is unsure about the nature of the tasks Mr. Nku refers to.

“I do not recall who or what was this all about .”

Chief Mashaba denies ever traveling overseas, stating he has never traveled overseas.

“I have never travelled overseas .”

Chief Mashaba characterizes the rift or distraction involving Mr. Tumelo in 2019 as related to ANC issues and a rally, acknowledging Tumelo as an ANC person.

“Like I am saying , 2019 . Like I am saying , I know if it is something to do with rallies, it is ANC things . So I cannot remember 2019 , what was happening or what was the rally all about or which rally was this .”

Chief Mashaba admits being the one to initiate multiple chats with Mr. Nku regarding unfinished business and expresses frustration at not recalling details about the nature of this business in 2019.

“I do not want unfinished business . So you have business with him ? It is a difficult one because I even hate now to say I do not remember. I do not recall.”

Chief Mashaba says Mr. Nku is a businessman involved with Coca-Cola, but he does not know what exactly he does there.

“I just know him as a businessman. He is in business with Coca-Cola. Ja, that is what I know of. What he is doing in Coca-Cola, I cannot tell.”

Chief Mashaba acknowledges that the firm 'Firme Welenaa' has gone under but does not elaborate on this fact within the chats, implying it may relate to his friendship with Mr. Nku.

“You are interpreting it correctly, Commissioner. ... It can be our friendship that I am talking about here.”

Chief Mashaba acknowledges that if something had happened in 2019, he would remember quickly, but currently he does not recall the incidents or context involving Mr. Nku's tasks or clearance.

“Actually, it frustrates. ... if really, really, something happened in 2019, I was going to quickly, rather than what I have mentioned, I was going to quickly remember.”

Chief Mashaba asserts that his involvement with Mr Nku on 9 July 2021 was related to a drug bust, denying any unrelated involvement.

“My involvement with him on the 9th had everything to do with the drug bust.”

Khensani works at the Emirates check-in counter and was involved in discussing shift times and flight details related to a visit to the airport connected to the drug bust case.

“Khensani is somebody that works at the Emirates check-in counter.”

Communications between Chief Mashaba and others show arrangements related to visits to the airport counter and requests for details on shift times, linked to investigation efforts.

“Get and send more details ... bring more, maybe surname and shift times so we can quickly visit.”

There is a suggestion that stolen goods, possibly gold or platinum, were involved at the airport and Nku needed help recovering them, involving persons named Gauza and others.

“Nku had a problem ... I cannot remember if it was gold or platinum ... they stole it from the airport ... Nku needed assistance that, can you please get me Gauza's numbers so that I meet with him?”

There was a theft incident on 5 May involving 150,000 USD and 4 million in cash stolen from passengers' bags at the airport, with a check-in person named Ayanda involved.

“On the 5th of May on the night flight at 2:20 p.m. a 150k USD was stolen from a client's bag. Ayanda checked him in ... and also 4 million in cash was also stolen from two bags from another passenger.”

Chief Mashaba was asked to assist police with recovering money stolen at the airport involving persons known to Mr Nku, including Gauza.

“I wanted Mashego to assist Nku about maybe recovering whatever that was lost at the airport because they were working there, or they are still working there. I do not know.”

Khensani is a person who was assisting Nku, but is not police; he was involved in matters related to stolen money at the airport.

“Khensani is somebody that was maybe assisting Nku. For sure, Khensani is not police.”

Items were stolen by Khensani.

“T h e n i t w o u l d m e a n t h o s e t h i n g s w e r e s t o l e n b y K h e n s a n i .”

Chief Mashaba personally went to OR Tambo International Airport to find Khensani and investigate stolen items.

“you actually went to the airport yourself ... You were not forwarding this information that Mr Nku gives you ... You actually went to the airport yourself”

Chief Mashaba was introducing Mr Nku to Gauza and others at OR Tambo Airport for assistance regarding stolen dollars at the airport.

“I think it was maybe introducing him to Gauza and them ... For him because he needed assistance. There is dollars that got stolen at the airport.”

There was an incident of stolen money (dollars) at OR Tambo Airport in February 2019 involving Mr Nku's bosses and efforts to recover the stolen gold or platinum.

“do they get stolen twice ? ... basically put up a team to go recover stolen gold or stolen platinum on behalf of Nku's bosses?”

Chief Mashaba denies putting up a team himself but requested assistance from others who work at the airport to recover stolen items.

“I do not put up a team. I ask if they can assist ... They will go because they work there. I do not work there.”

Chief Mashaba admits his team was complaining about not being topped up with money for the operation to recover stolen goods.

“My team is complaining ... I am winning, trust me ... It means I made money here.”

The team mentioned needing money to be topped up to proceed with operations, implying corruption in the recovery operation.

“The money that has been given is not enough and Nku must top it up so that the team can proceed to do whatever they were supposed to do ... the message saying please top up refers to money ... The team is complaining a bit. Please top up if you can.”

Chief Mashaba confirms that no money was given from Nku for the operation, and the top up did not materialize.

“I know for a fact, Commissioners, nothing was given from Nku ... the top up would mean or he means ... it never materialised ...”

Chat language 'Rashota' means short of cash, not enough money; Chief Mashaba agrees and says no money was made available so he cannot recall what happened exactly.

“Rashota means you are short of cash. It is not enough ... I am not excluding myself because I can see here is rashota ... because it never materialised that is why I could not remember exactly what was happening because it went nowhere.”

Chief Mashaba admits constituting a team of police officers (Mashego, Twala, Mvinjelwa) arranged with Mr Nku to be paid (topped up) in the context of the stolen goods recovery operation.

“So you were arranging for police officers Mashego, Twala, and Mvinjelwa to be paid by Mr Nku ... you constituted a team of the three and they are all police officers.”

The constituted police team was trying to recover gold stolen from the airport on behalf of Mr Nku, which was a side hustle paid for by Mr Nku, not an official police duty.

“I t i s t h e d o l l a r s a n d t h e g o l d t h a t w a s s t o l e n f r o m t h e a i r p o r t ... t h e y w e r e t r y i n g t o g e t i t , to r e c o v e r i t ...”

Chief Mashaba confirmed that he constituted a team of police officers who were doing a favor for Mr Nku and were paid by him, working outside their official duties.

“Ye s , C o m m i s s i o n e r s .”

The police officers involved were acting as a private team hired and paid by Mr Nku, outside their official employment duties, constituting a side hustle which breaches the law and could lead to criminal prosecution.

“I t w a s a s i d e h u s t l e t h a t t h e y w e r e d o i n g f o r M r N k u ... Yo u o r g a n i s e a t e a m o f p o l i c e o f f i c e r s t o d o t h e w o r k f o r a p r i v a t e c i t i z e n a n d t h e n t o b e p a i d b y t h e p r i v a t e c i t i z e n ... T h a t b r e a k s t h e l a w ... I t i s j u s t p l a i n c r i m i n a l c o n d u c t .”

Chief Mashaba received R1000 from Mr Nku on 25 May as some form of assistance due to their relationship, unrelated to grabbing Khensani.

“Clearly , it was not for this . It was for something else ... I would say because of our relationship . Maybe for trying to assist him . That is what he did .”

Chief Mashaba admitted that none of the materialised plans to grab Khensani were successful, and that he does not remember much about the event.

“Like I am saying , none of this materialised . So we were not successful ... So why did Mr Nku then send you R1000 on the 25th of May ?... I do not remember much of anything .”

Chief Mashaba was politically and forcefully removed, arrested, detained, and suspended in 2018, then reinstated later that year after not being taken for a hearing within the suspension period.

“You say you were arrested and then the matter was not placed on the roll . You say that, and you were then released the following day ... that did not happen ... That is how I was reinstated ... I know I was locked up in 2018 ...”

In 2019 Chief Mashaba was the Head of Service Point at Vereeniging Regional Office, not Head of SAPS.

“In 2019 , you are the Head of Service Point , Head of Service Point in Vereeniging Regional Office ... Not Head of SAPS .”

Chief Mashaba was involved in an operation in OR Tambo in 2019, but jurisdictional limitations applied.

“Like I said , in the province , we do not have jurisdiction ...”

Chief Mashaba states he did not get inside the airport terminal during operations and his role was to introduce the team to people working there, not to participate in arrests or other official police functions.

“I did not get into the airport and dig into what was happening. Because I found the guys that are working there, I went with Tumelo to introduce to them. That necessary does not mean I went inside airport, inside the in-airport.”

Chief Mashaba confirms that OR Tambo is an airport and that police operations, including traffic officers giving tickets, do occur there but not inside the terminal building.

“OR Tambo is the airport”

The group involved in the 2019 operation at OR Tambo, paid by Mr Nku, was not an official police operation and members did not perform official police functions but were involved in planned arrests relating to stolen gold.

“which we have established is not an official police operation, because these three people who are your team that are paid by Nku, they are not in a police operation to follow up on this”

Chief Mashaba acknowledges a WhatsApp message stating they would 'grab him' but insists that does not mean he was part of the team planning or effecting an arrest, highlighting the distinction between presence and active participation.

“it does not mean necessarily that I was part of the team. But because of the airport, if that is what I meant that it is going to happen, I am also here around. Not necessarily that I am part of that operation”

Chief Mashaba admits he was at the airport assisting Mr Nku and introducing the group to Nku but denies participating in the actual operation or arrest.

“I did not participate in that operation. I was at the airport trying to assist Nku and introduce the guys to Nku. It necessarily does not mean I went inside the airport or I was part of the operation.”

Advocate Baloyi accuses Chief Mashaba of associating himself with a team making a planned arrest outside his traffic officer duties, questioning his role in the process.

“Certain words from Advocate Baloyi SC”

Chief Mashaba identifies 'DD' as Tumza's uncle, Kebby Maphatsoe, who has passed away.

“DD is Tumza's uncle”

Advocates Segels-Ncube and Khumalo challenge Chief Mashaba's identification of 'DD' as Kebby Maphatsoe, pointing out that 'DD' commonly refers to Deputy President DD Mabuza, reappointed in May 2019, creating doubt about honesty in testimony.

“Certain words from ADV BALOYI SC”

Chief Mashaba refuses to comment further on the identity confusion around 'DD' and states that Mr Kebby Maphatsoe is deceased.

“Certain words from CHIEF MASHABA”

Advocate Baloyi alleges Chief Mashaba is not honest about the identity of 'DD', implying an effort to conceal involvement of Deputy President Mabuza in relevant issues.

“Certain words from ADV BALOYI SC”

Chief Mashaba says he would know Mr Kebby Maphatsoe is back because he would be seeing him on TV, even if he is abroad, but he cannot confirm he is back just by seeing him abroad on TV.

“Obviously I would be seeing him on TV. He can be on TV even if he is abroad ... No, I cannot be saying he is back while I am seeing him abroad on TV. He must have been landed in our country ...”

Chief Mashaba said it makes more sense that the late Deputy President was back to his position and it would have been public knowledge, unlike Mr Kebby Maphatsoe whose return is not so clearly known.

“it makes more sense that perhaps it was a late Deputy President because you would have seen that he was back to his position ... So it makes sense for you to say, I see that he is back. But with Mr Kebby Maphatsoe it is not necessarily the same ...”

Advocate Khumalo accuses Chief Mashaba of lying to the Commission by giving untruthful evidence about Mr Kebby Maphatsoe's return date.

“Chief Mashaba, in the era of Google, you should not be lying about facts that are publicly verifiable. And what you are doing now is you are lying to the Commission ... I do not often use that word, lying ... why are you lying on such a meaningless issue?”

Chief Mashaba denies lying and claims if it was DD Mabuza, he would have no reason to lie about a late person.

“I am not lying, Commissioners. I know Mr Nku calls Kebby DD. Like I am saying, if it was DD Mabuza, I would see no reason to lie about a late person.”

The elections were around May 8, 2019, and by May 13, the results were known. President Ramaphosa announced his cabinet on May 29; hence the only person who could be referred to as back by that date is Deputy President DD Mabuza.

“The elections in May 2019 were around the 8th. By the 13th, the results were known. And on this day, the 9th, President Ramaphosa announced his cabinet. So it is obvious ... that the person you are referring to here is then Deputy President DD Mabuza ...”

Kebby Maphatsoe only took office on June 15, 2019, after Mr Jeff Gadebe resigned, so it would be impossible to know he was back on May 29, 2019.

“Chief, if it was Kebby Maphatsoe, he only came into office on the 15th of June 2019 after Mr Jeff Gadebe resigned ... So how would you know on May 29 that he was going to take over ... ?”

President Ramaphosa announced his 2019 Cabinet on 29 May 2019.

“Do you accept as a fact that President Ramaphosa announced his 2019 Cabinet on 29 May 2019?”