Mr Karim

The loan from Mr Karim was repaid using monies paid by SAPS into Medicare accounts.

“I was paying the money back to Mr Karim from the monies paid by SAPS”

Mr Matlala had an oral loan agreement with Mr Karim for 50 million rand without a written agreement or security.

“I did not have to persuade him. I just showed him my contract and my SLA, and then I just maybe discussed how much the contract is worth and how much he can make out of it.”

Mr Matlala was paying Mr Karim 10 percent of what SAPS was paying him under the contract as part of the loan repayment.

“I was paying him 10 per cent of what SAPS was paying me.”

The loan from Mr Karim to Mr Matlala remains outstanding and unpaid.

“Have you paid off this loan? No.”

Mr Matlala met Mr Karim around 2020 through visits to Mr Msibi's farm and discussions in the security industry.

“he also used to come and visit Mr Msibi at this farm and then because he will see me there now and then, we ended up being close.”

There was a loan of 50 million with terms including Mr Karim receiving 10% of the contract value; the loan has not been fully repaid, was repayable over a period, and was based on an oral agreement.

“there was a loan for 50 million, that one of the terms for this loan was that Mr Karim would receive 10 per cent of the value of the contract and that the loan has not been extinguished in its entirety, that it was repayable over a certain period, the detail of which he cannot recall, and that it was an oral agreement”